Re: Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line)

**Lynn** Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:04 pm

parkash wrote:aahmm lynn can you tell me that the hand print you posted ,,, how old he lived....?

he is age 28 now.

**knox gillespie** Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:54 pm

My first notion when I see a short life line, is that fears pierce the person. Fears from the subconscious , the memory, usually lie dormant unable the scale the concious barrier of active thinking...Without a good life line length , memory is in play.....

chakraborty Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:57 am

When I started learning Palmistry, I used to believe that short life line length gives a short life. Even few traditional Indian Palmistry books did mention that.

Later I found that the same need not be true. In Indian Palmistry, the heart line is called 'Ayu Rekha' - that is longevity line. Probably with the thinking that the heart needs to keep beating to keep us alive ! When I studied further, I found in some books that Fate line can take the place of Lifeline when the Lifeline is short. There were some specific conditions for this is to be true - like Fate line distinct etc. etc.

As Indian Palmistry has some relation with astrology, the rationale for above is simple from that angle. Fate line is related to Saturn and so may carry the significance of Saturn - which are Career (10H), Occult & Longevity and chronic disease (8H) and enmity/diseases (acute) (6H). So, tendencies/events of these areas may show some indication in Fate line.

A good life line is supposed to provide good life and also a good longevity - provided supported by other factors and no cuts/islands etc. This line was also called Pitru rekha (Father line) or Gotra Rekha (Family lineagae). Probably a short life line may indicate a very unconventional later life - away from the upbringing.

BTW, I have also seen people gauging the longevity from Lifeline and being very accurate. But it appeared that the deduction was also based on some intuition.

regards

Chakraborty

**pravin kumar** Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:44 am

Dear Martijn,

I read about your report on the short life line. I refer to Book "The Prediction Book of Palmistry" by Jo Logan. I read this book long long time back and have been following this particular interpretation:

The utmost care must be taken because it is not unusual, either, for there to be two separate life lines on a hand: the original line comes to an abrupt halt and a new, strong line develops elsewhere in the hand. More often than not, the new life line will start from the head line so may be mistaken for a fate line and continues down the palm to echo the route that the original line would probably have taken. .

This configuration denotes that the subject has made a complete break with his old life style, due to dissatisfaction or force of circumstance, and created a new life for himself, quite literally, probably in entirely new surroundings. I have this formation in my right hand, the original life line having stopped around 25. This coincided with a move to another country, a very different occupation and totally alien way of life. This is on Page 78 of the book. I have been following this regularly and systematically with many many confirmations. To me it looks like a Life Line combined with Fate Line or Fate cum Life Line.

Pravin Kumar

tajender Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:29 pm

Pravinjee
This is robust reply to so called western palmist like Martijn.

**Martijn (admin)** Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:23 pm

pravin kumar wrote:Dear Martijn,

I read about your report on the short life line. I refer to Book "The Prediction Book of Palmistry" by Jo Logan. I read this book long long time back and have been following this particular interpretation:

The utmost care must be taken because it is not unusual, either, for there to be two separate life lines on a hand: the original line comes to an abrupt halt and a new, strong line develops elsewhere in the hand. More often than not, the new life line will start from the head line so may be mistaken for a fate line and continues down the palm to echo the route that the original line would probably have taken. .

This configuration denotes that the subject has made a complete break with his old life style, due to dissatisfaction or force of circumstance, and created a new life for himself, quite literally, probably in entirely new surroundings. I have this formation in my right hand, the original life line having stopped around 25. This coincided with a move to another country, a very different occupation and totally alien way of life. This is on Page 78 of the book. I have been following this regularly and systematically with many many confirmations. To me it looks like a Life Line combined with Fate Line or Fate cum Life Line.

Pravin Kumar

Hi Pravin Kumar,

Sorry, your post does not describe to which aspect in my posts you are responding...? You mentioned my 'report'; I assume you have this article in mind?:
http://www.handresearch.com/news/cheiro-line-of-life-longevity-research-life-line-lifeline.htm

Or is your post a response to the example I presented and discussed earlier in this topic?

(Regarding the book that you mentioned: I have the impression that Jo Logan wrote books about many 'divination' topics... so I would not recommend to propose her as an expert in this field)

So I would welcome you to specify your observations.

wave

PS. I think my article and my 'short life line' example (earlier in this topic) shows that I am very aware of the various variations that can be found in a hand (with- or without a fate line getting involved). By the way, you mentioned your own palm as an example to make your point... but without a print/photo of your hand it is fairly impossible for me to respond anyhow to your observations regarding your own hand.

**pravin kumar** Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:47 am

Martijn,

I am referring to the Short Life Line. Actually it is not my palm I am talking about but the author has mentioned about her palm. She has the same indication in her palm.

Martijn (admin) wrote:
pravin kumar wrote:Dear Martijn,

I read about your report on the short life line. I refer to Book "The Prediction Book of Palmistry" by Jo Logan. I read this book long long time back and have been following this particular interpretation:

The utmost care must be taken because it is not unusual, either, for there to be two separate life lines on a hand: the original line comes to an abrupt halt and a new, strong line develops elsewhere in the hand. More often than not, the new life line will start from the head line so may be mistaken for a fate line and continues down the palm to echo the route that the original line would probably have taken. .

This configuration denotes that the subject has made a complete break with his old life style, due to dissatisfaction or force of circumstance, and created a new life for himself, quite literally, probably in entirely new surroundings. I have this formation in my right hand, the original life line having stopped around 25. This coincided with a move to another country, a very different occupation and totally alien way of life. This is on Page 78 of the book. I have been following this regularly and systematically with many many confirmations. To me it looks like a Life Line combined with Fate Line or Fate cum Life Line.

Pravin Kumar

Hi Pravin Kumar,

Sorry, your post does not describe to which aspect in my posts you are responding...? You mentioned my 'report'; I assume you have this article in mind?:
http://www.handresearch.com/news/cheiro-line-of-life-longevity-research-life-line-lifeline.htm

Or is your post a response to the example I presented and discussed earlier in this topic?

(Regarding the book that you mentioned: I have the impression that Jo Logan wrote books about many 'divination' topics... so I would not recommend to propose her as an expert in this field)

So I would welcome you to specify your observations.

PS. I think my article and my 'short life line' example (earlier in this topic) shows that I am very aware of the various variations that can be found in a hand (with- or without a fate line getting involved). By the way, you mentioned your own palm as an example to make your point... but without a print/photo of your hand it is fairly impossible for me to respond anyhow to your observations regarding your own hand.

What I wish to state is that the line you describe as Fate Line could be interpreted as Life cum Fate Line and the inner one as Line of Mars. Life Line can rise a little higher as in this case, higher in the sense is the gap between the upper edge of the thumb and the lowest edge of the Jupitor Finger. Higher than the centre point of this would be higher.

This would also explain the person living a long life with such an indication.

Short Life Line will also not mean short life because a person whose palm I saw about 20 years back had ditto short life line ending at 52. I told him probably he has digestion problems and that he should take care of it. After another 6 years I saw his palm both his life lines has got extended. I have seen other persons with short life lines having a prominent supporting Fate Line from the bottom supporting the break or the Inner Life Line or Line of Mars supporting the break. W.G.Benham states that a strong thumb may also cover the deficiency of the short life line as the Will is more powerful and may extend the life line in due course.

I just sought your clarification on this subject since I have been following it sincerely since I read that book and even in this forum I must have read palms with similar indications i.e. where the fate cum life line deviate from the head line it shows the change of city or some very important change.

Pravin Kumar

**Martijn (admin)** Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:49 am

Sorry Pravin Kumar, I perceive your description still not to be very specific (but thank you for correcting that you were talking about the author's hand and not your hand).

By the way, are you talking about the print that I have presented earlier in this topic?

See below:

I already described why in this example the green line can not be described as a life line, and the red line not as a mars line... especially since the blue line meets ALL the typical characteristics of a mars line and the red line meets ALL the typical characteristics of a life line.

(I understand that one could argue that the upper third part of the green fat line could also be recognized as a second part of the life line - which would result sort of in an overlapping interrupted life line; but I already described that it has too many typical aspects of a typical fate line. By the way, one could also argue that this third upper part of the fate could also be associated to represent the lower part of a splitting head line - but that is a likewise speculative position as the position to describe it as the 2nd part of the life line)

PS. I hope you will be able to specify your observations for a specific print... because otherwise your words do not represent much more than a 'speculative theory' (without being featured with any clear example which support your theory).

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Short-11

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Short-11

**pravin kumar** Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:17 am

Dear Martijn,

My mistake in not being to explain properly. Now I have checked your reply and I feel that it could be case of 2 life lines and innner Mars Line in the picture you have posted. What I want to point out is in such cases (not just this picture) where there may not be Inner Mars Line and the life line is not present but in the form of connected with head line and curving downwards showing it to be life line cum Fate Line I assume it to be a combination of both Fate as well as Life Line. This is what I was trying to get at and the picture you have posted already has another life line within and an inner mars line. I did not see that carefully, my apologies.

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Sorry Pravin Kumar, I perceive your description still not to be very specific (but thank you for correcting that you were talking about the author's hand and not your hand).

By the way, are you talking about the print that I have presented earlier in this topic?

See below:

I already described why in this example the green line can not be described as a life line, and the red line not as a mars line... especially since the blue line meets ALL the typical characteristics of a mars line and the red line meets ALL the typical characteristics of a life line.

(I understand that one could argue that the upper third part of the green fat line could also be recognized as a second part of the life line - which would result sort of in an overlapping interrupted life line; but I already described that it has too many typical aspects of a typical fate line. By the way, one could also argue that this third upper part of the fate could also be associated to represent the lower part of a splitting head line - but that is a likewise speculative position as the position to describe it as the 2nd part of the life line)

PS. I hope you will be able to specify your observations for a specific print... because otherwise your words do not represent much more than a 'speculative theory' (without being featured with any clear example which support your theory).

Now for verification I will tell you from this picture which is posted, this person must have changed his/her residence or City at the age of 18/19. If you or whosoever knows this person could get this confirmation then it would help otherwise I have to change my reading of such prints and I come across many of them.

Pravin Kumar

**Martijn (admin)** Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:55 pm

pravin kumar wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:

Now for verification I will tell you from this picture which is posted, this person must have changed his/her residence or City at the age of 18/19. If you or whosoever knows this person could get this confirmation then it would help otherwise I have to change my reading of such prints and I come across many of them.

Pravin Kumar

No need to apologize at all - thank you for your correction. wave

By the way, I think the answer to your question is a 'no' because I think she moved away from her family quite a few years later (when she got married - though I am not sure at what age the exactly got married).

(It's a bit surprising to see that you associate the age 18/19 with the end of her life line in this hand; I would have expected the end of the life line to be associated with an age of about 25)

**pravin kumar** Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:04 pm

Dear Martijn,

Again there is a misunderstanding. I am referring to the head line which curves down after going straight for a short period. The place where it curves down I take it to be 18/19 whereas you are referring to the short Life Line ending to be 25. This is the difference.

Martijn (admin) wrote:
pravin kumar wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:

Now for verification I will tell you from this picture which is posted, this person must have changed his/her residence or City at the age of 18/19. If you or whosoever knows this person could get this confirmation then it would help otherwise I have to change my reading of such prints and I come across many of them.

Pravin Kumar

No need to apologize at all - thank you for your correction.

By the way, I think the answer to your question is a 'no' because I think she moved away from her family quite a few years later (when she got married - though I am not sure at what age the exactly got married).

(It's a bit surprising to see that you associate the age 18/19 with the end of her life line in this hand; I would have expected the end of the life line to be associated with an age of about 25)

Pravin Kumar

**Martijn (admin)** Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:29 pm

pravin kumar wrote:Dear Martijn,

Again there is a misunderstanding. I am referring to the head line which curves down after going straight for a short period. The place where it curves down I take it to be 18/19 whereas you are referring to the short Life Line ending to be 25. This is the difference.

Martijn (admin) wrote:
pravin kumar wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:

Now for verification I will tell you from this picture which is posted, this person must have changed his/her residence or City at the age of 18/19. If you or whosoever knows this person could get this confirmation then it would help otherwise I have to change my reading of such prints and I come across many of them.

Pravin Kumar

No need to apologize at all - thank you for your correction.

By the way, I think the answer to your question is a 'no' because I think she moved away from her family quite a few years later (when she got married - though I am not sure at what age the exactly got married).

(It's a bit surprising to see that you associate the age 18/19 with the end of her life line in this hand; I would have expected the end of the life line to be associated with an age of about 25)

Pravin Kumar

Aha... okay, thanks for explaining that - yes, that makes sense.

(But I am still not sure about the implications of your words - because if you now prefer to describe the upper part of the green line as a part of the head line... that would create another discussion; but so far I have not seen a solid argument against my classification for describing the upper green part as a part of the fate line)

Now, you keep me wondering... do you still object against my proposal to describe the upper part of the green line as a fate line?

And if so, what is your argument really? scratch

**Parender** Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:14 pm

Martijn is right as far descriptions of lines are concerned, without doubt. This is also right that the length of the Life Line does not tell the length of your life. But why it is so? The answer is it depends on many factors.

There are many reasons for being the person in question not only being alive but normally healthy too in spite of having a short original Life Line. As a whole is more valuable and important than independent single sign; as no sign or marker is absolute in itself on palms of the hands. I don’t remember who said but it is true that everything affects everything. For perfection in this field, you would have to learn to establish combinations between all the three keys of Palmistry.

I see small repair lines near the main Life Line towards thumb on Mars Mount. By repair lines here I mean one or two lines running parallel or overlaying to the main line. These extra lines are the signs of protection and these rectify the defects of the main line. This means that the life of the person was in great danger at that time of the termination point of the Life Line but has been saved or will be saved.

See a clear vertical line on the mount of Saturn under the middle finger. Same are under the ring finger. It also shows zest of life, the drivenness will continue for much longer period than normal period as revealed by Life Line.

According to my experiences the starting period of Fate Line now will do the work of a good Life Line too from where the original Life Line stopped because the house evacuated by Fate will be occupied by Life. She has good heart line which plays a very important role to keep a person alive. By the law of average your attitude mentality matter too. Besides that I see no so called bad or negative marks at the termination of the Life Line like island, cross, star, dot or mole -as Michel Jackson had on his one hand -etc. You cannot and must not predict death by seeing just one marker on the palms of the hands.

Here it may seem for someone rather difficult to recognize the Life Line from the Saturn Line, but, if you look deliberately, you will find that supports for her life current are coming from elsewhere on the palms of the hands. In many a cases a split or branch starts from the Life Line to mingle with Fate Line. If she had not been supported by these elements/features mentioned above, she would have definitely died at that time of termination of original Life Line.

Change is the law of Nature. A person cannot remain constantly in a single make-up of mind for a very long period so the overlaying or breaks of lines may show radical change of location desired by her but not short life span. I don’t consider this is a lucky hand as far worldly success is concerned. She had struggled and had frustrations too with complain of non cooperation earlier. She annoyed earlier a few of her own people. I consider broken Fate Line is not a good thing to possess. They have to reestablish, restart their life many a times. They lack stability. I see a rather good evening of life with a few things in her control.

Parender

Patti Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:43 pm

(I see there is a post while I'm composing, but will go ahead and post without reading it)

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Short-11

Lynn wrote:Martijn, thanks for posting your aunts handprint. Indeed it is very similar to how I recall my friend's aunt's hand (who died in her 90's). However I could now find myself arguing - is the red line her lifeline or is it an extended line of mars? Is the green line her fate line or could it be her long lifeline (attached to headline for a long time eg. if she was attached to family for a long time / slow to 'cut the apron strings' / late developer in some way?)?

...

I agree with Lynn's thoughts highlighted in bold above.

Martijn I cannot find where you described your reasoning behind seeing the red line as a short life line and the green as the fate line in your aunt's hand. Could you also share her other hand for comparison of how the fate and life lines interact there?

I think we are looking at a very close variation of the "Single Carpal Base Crease" as illustrated in "Anthropology of Crease Morphogenesis" (fig. 9.27: Major Crease Types - page 169) This is a joining of the fate and life lines with a common base at the carpals.

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Bali10

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Bali10

In "Quantitative-Qualitative Friction Ridge Analysis" (David R. Ashbaugh) on page 181, there is an illustration that shows the creases related to the fingers. The fate line equates to the middle finger crease and the sun line would be the same as the ring finger crease. The thenar crease or life line would be associated with the thumb

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Crease10

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Crease10

Also, in general, the life line remains inside the dermatoglypic main lines from the (t) triradius which I have traced in pink in my illustration below.

Here is how I would label the creases. I am influenced also by the parallel nature of the creases I have colored in aqua where the head and life lines part ways. The life life appears, to me, to be breaking and forming parallel and overlapping lines to itself, while moving into conjunction with the fate line.

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Short-10

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Short-10

A = Life Line parallel overlapping lines
B = Fate Line branching upwards from Life Line
Fate Line and Life Line conjoined (this continues into the green colored line)
C = Mars Line
D = Dermatoglyphics showing enclosure of Life Line and conjoined part of Life/Fate Lines

**Martijn (admin)** Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:03 pm

Patti wrote:...

Martijn I cannot find where you described your reasoning behind seeing the red line as a short life line and the green as the fate line in your aunt's hand. Could you also share her other hand for comparison of how the fate and life lines interact there?

Patti, in the following post I have described by detail how every aspect of the green line kind of shows typical characteristics of a fate line:
https://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t166p15-any-body-can-give-any-answer-for-this-length-life-line#1376

And I think it is obvious that the red line displays all typical characteristics of a life line (regarding it's starting point, it's path + it's width)... it is only short.

(Sorry, you have not explained at all why you associate the other blue lines in your picture with a life line; actually, I observe that none of those lines display the typical characteristics of a life line - in terms of the locations, the path and the width: I think it is obvious that each of those lines display characteristics that can be associated with other lines as well... but this can not be said about the life line in my picture)

PS. Some of the minor blue line-parts in your picture are ridges (remember the Korean article!)

Patti Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:18 pm

Actually I explained very clearly with support from Bali and Ashbaugh. If you read through and study the illustrations in the book I mentioned above by Bali, you will see that when there is one longitudinal crease, it is the life line and not the fate line, which is a secondary crease. The green colored crease cannot be the fate line alone.

As to depth of the crease, I've noticed this varies from ink print to ink print and position of hand on the paper.

p.s. ridges would be the darker color... I traced the white areas - also only one short branch seems to flow with the ridges.

Patti Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:50 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:...

Martijn I cannot find where you described your reasoning behind seeing the red line as a short life line and the green as the fate line in your aunt's hand. Could you also share her other hand for comparison of how the fate and life lines interact there?

Patti, in the following post I have described by detail how every aspect of the green line kind of shows typical characteristics of a fate line:
https://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t166p15-any-body-can-give-any-answer-for-this-length-life-line#1376

And I think it is obvious that the red line displays all typical characteristics of a life line (regarding it's starting point, it's path + it's width)... it is only short.

(Sorry, you have not explained at all why you associate the other blue lines in your picture with a life line; actually, I observe that none of those lines display the typical characteristics of a life line - in terms of the locations, the path and the width: I think it is obvious that each of those lines display characteristics that can be associated with other lines as well... but this can not be said about the life line in my picture)

PS. Some of the minor blue line-parts in your picture are ridges (remember the Korean article!)

Actually, one could observe that the green line includes 3 'components':

- the 'first component' starts at the wrist and is slightly directed to the pinky finger: which is a completely normal position for a 'fate line' - I am 100% sure.... that aspect doesn't belong to the life line!

- the 'second component' starts a few cm's higher - halfway the 'first component': this second aspect is slichtly directed to the ring finger - I am 100% sure... that aspect doesn't belong to the life line either!

- and the 'third component' starts almost at the end of the 'second component': this third is directed towards the zone between the index finger + middle finger and ends at the HEAD LINE (it has all typical characteristcs of a 'dissociated head line', which is not connected with the life line - including a 'smooth' straight path). I think one could describe it as a 'splitting' from the head line (the yellow line) ... but I can not describe ONE SINGLE characteristic that indicates that this line can be described as a 'life line'.

Your 1st Component could relate to the little finger crease described by Ashbaugh. This upward branch, is only a branch from the conjoined fate and life lines. I colored it orange and compared it to fate, but it is more related to a Mercury/Health line.

Your 2nd Component also relates to Ashbaugh's description of the creases that rise to the middle, ring and little fingers.

Your 3rd Component is where we will see that Bali describes it as a single carpal crease or a conjoined life and fate line. You have added the Sun Line and Mercury Line to the combined Fate and Life and they all join into one line that aims to the carpals.

The higher life line begins as a single radial based crease (conjoined head and life lines) and the lower placed life line is a double radial based crease (separate head and life lines).

Besides the science supporting your green line as a life line, I don't think there are many practicing palm readers that would actually see this as a solitary short life line when there is a parallel outer line right next to it that continues to the wrist. As far as I can tell there isn't a single point from radial to carpal where there isn't a continuous crease present. This is the life line, it is joined to the head line radially and joined to the fate line proximally or at the carpals.

Location is more important than depth - which again is arbitrary as we're looking at an inkprint which varies from print to print in the same printing session.

As I have described here, I think it is important that we look at the relationships of the endings and beginnings of the fate and life lines and the head and life lines along with their relationship with secondary or minor lines. It would also be helpful to see the other hand for a better understanding of the nature of these endings and beginnings.

Patti Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:03 pm

Martijn,
I took a closer look to see if the short lines I colored aqua were actually just extra wide space between the ridges and in the process noticed that the line you colored red, is also closely following the dgs and it can be said that a good portion is where the crease blends with widening and forking ridges. So your 'short life life' is even shorter.

It is accepted that there is a relationship between the ridges and the creases. The creases often follow the flow of the ridges and main lines, this was noted by Cummins & Midlo.

**Martijn (admin)** Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:52 am

Hi Patti,

Sorry, I have the impression that your attention got focused on details that do not really matter regarding the issue of describing the life line.

Maybe I could describe my argument more precisely as follows:

First of all, I think it is important to notice that in this print the head lines starts as a perfectly normal (dissociated) head line.

Secondly, IF one decides so describe the 'short life line' as a Mars line... this sort of creates a problem, because then one should also point out to that in this print the start of a normal life line appears to be missing!???

(For, the start of the head line is well defined and there is no indication in the first part of the head line at all which could support the idea that the start of the head line is actually an 'entwinde' head- plus life line)

I hope that this rather simple approach shows why it does not really make sense to describe the life line as a mars line... simply because there is no other line between this life line and the head line.

Also, mars lines nearly always start inside the mount of mars.. .or at the life line. This life line kind of 'surrounds' the mount of mars; and additionally there is also the perfectly normal mars line inside the mount of mars.

MY CONCLUSION:

There is nothing unusual about this print (except that the life line is rather short); though I would support the observation that the fate line sort of displays characteristics that are sometimes seen in a life line - but I don't think that it has enough characteristics of a life line to describe that line as the continuation of the life line. By the way, that line is also quite short... so would not really make a difference in the perspective of how this discussion started, because even then I could argue that the length of the life line is still far too short in the perspective of her current age, etc.).

(Regarding her left hand: it displays a likewise pattern, in that hand the fate line is ending at the head line as well, however... the fate line is pointing there clearly towards the middle finger)

PS. I sort of see 'red bells ringing everywhere' regarding the hypothesis to describe this life line as a mars line (because then at the end one could actually also start arguing that in this hand there might be no life line at all... which would make this topic a rather confusing discussion... because the life line is actually very easy to be found, etc.)

(Sorry, I think we are way off topic regarding the issue of whether the life line says anything about the length of life)

**Martijn (admin)** Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:01 am

Patti wrote:Actually I explained very clearly with support from Bali and Ashbaugh. If you read through and study the illustrations in the book I mentioned above by Bali, you will see that when there is one longitudinal crease, it is the life line and not the fate line, which is a secondary crease. The green colored crease cannot be the fate line alone.

...

Patti, where does the book say that if a hand shows only one crease ending at the bottom of the palm... then it must be the life line?

Sorry, I don't think that the books supports your suggestion above at all - because there is no rule at all that a life line requires to reach out to the lower half of the mount of venus; however in case you'e able to present a specific quote that supports your point... it might become helpful for me to understand why you wrote what you wrote.

Thanks!

**pravin kumar** Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:22 am

Dear Martijn,

What you consider as a short Life Line I have agreed to that description but what I wanted to add is that the headline cum fate line could also be treated as a second Life line cum Fate Line cum Head Line. In the beginning it acts as a Life Line cum Head Line and then later on as the line curves downwards or probably goes up from the wrist upto the place where it meets the head line it could be termed as Fate Line cum Life Line.

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Hi Patti,

Sorry, I have the impression that your attention got focused on details that do not really matter regarding the issue of describing the life line.

Maybe I could describe my argument more precisely as follows:

First of all, I think it is important to notice that in this print the head lines starts as a perfectly normal (dissociated) head line.

Secondly, IF one decides so describe the 'short life line' as a Mars line... this sort of creates a problem, because then one should also point out to that in this print the start of a normal life line appears to be missing!???

(For, the start of the head line is well defined and there is no indication in the first part of the head line at all which could support the idea that the start of the head line is actually an 'entwinde' head- plus life line)

I hope that this rather simple approach shows why it does not really make sense to describe the life line as a mars line... simply because there is no other line between this life line and the head line.

Also, mars lines nearly always start inside the mount of mars.. .or at the life line. This life line kind of 'surrounds' the mount of mars; and additionally there is also the perfectly normal mars line inside the mount of mars.

MY CONCLUSION:

There is nothing unusual about this print (except that the life line is rather short); though I would support the observation that the fate line sort of displays characteristics that are sometimes seen in a life line - but I don't think that it has enough characteristics of a life line to describe that line as the continuation of the life line. By the way, that line is also quite short... so would not really make a difference in the perspective of how this discussion started, because even then I could argue that the length of the life line is still far too short in the perspective of her current age, etc.).

(Regarding her left hand: it displays a likewise pattern, in that hand the fate line is ending at the head line as well, however... the fate line is pointing there clearly towards the middle finger)

PS. I sort of see 'red bells ringing everywhere' regarding the hypothesis to describe this life line as a mars line (because then at the end one could actually also start arguing that in this hand there might be no life line at all... which would make this topic a rather confusing discussion... because the life line is actually very easy to be found, etc.)

(Sorry, I think we are way off topic regarding the issue of whether the life line says anything about the length of life)

Off course we are a llittle off topic that of short life line does not denote the length of life but the other argument is so interesting that I wanted just a little bit of clarification. Now assuming what I see then this persons life would be as follows: If I consider the person has two life lines, one of which is headline cum life line and then fate line cum life line and the inner short life line as life line then that person has two life lines upto the age of 28/30. I would say then the person enjoyed a life in that earlier part as some very special happenings in his/her life. I have two life lines and I have escaped 6 Certain Deaths. Secondly I have had experiences which I cannot explain logically with normal intellect. Saints and those with very high Intelligence to understand Human Beings and so many other things that only they can explain through Deep Penance may explain how those things happened.

I have been trapped in so many difficult situations with no way out and suddenly without even my thinking of how to react it appears as if some hidden hand had got me out at the last moment with not even a scratch to me physically nor to my reputation. I have been traveling all over the country (India) for business since last 38 years and I have had many many experiences that I cannot explain logically how I was saved on numerous occasions. Now I mention all this is because if this person has 2 life lines (even though one maybe short) then that person must have had similar remarkable experiences to when he/she reached the age of say 30. Did that person enjoy such experiences? That would be confirmation otherwise your reasoning prevails. This will enable me to understand it much better if or not there are such confirmations.

I have read this Double Life Line in some Indian Palmistry Books (cannot recall the book) that it refers to Good Previous Karmas in your life.

Though off topic it is interesting and knowledeable to know yours and Patti's opinion on the above.

Regards.

Pravin Kumar

Patti Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:54 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Hi Patti,

Sorry, I have the impression that your attention got focused on details that do not really matter regarding the issue of describing the life line.

Maybe I could describe my argument more precisely as follows:

First of all, I think it is important to notice that in this print the head lines starts as a perfectly normal (dissociated) head line.

Secondly, IF one decides so describe the 'short life line' as a Mars line... this sort of creates a problem, because then one should also point out to that in this print the start of a normal life line appears to be missing!???

(For, the start of the head line is well defined and there is no indication in the first part of the head line at all which could support the idea that the start of the head line is actually an 'entwinde' head- plus life line)

I hope that this rather simple approach shows why it does not really make sense to describe the life line as a mars line... simply because there is no other line between this life line and the head line.

Also, mars lines nearly always start inside the mount of mars.. .or at the life line. This life line kind of 'surrounds' the mount of mars; and additionally there is also the perfectly normal mars line inside the mount of mars.

MY CONCLUSION:

There is nothing unusual about this print (except that the life line is rather short); though I would support the observation that the fate line sort of displays characteristics that are sometimes seen in a life line - but I don't think that it has enough characteristics of a life line to describe that line as the continuation of the life line. By the way, that line is also quite short... so would not really make a difference in the perspective of how this discussion started, because even then I could argue that the length of the life line is still far too short in the perspective of her current age, etc.).

(Regarding her left hand: it displays a likewise pattern, in that hand the fate line is ending at the head line as well, however... the fate line is pointing there clearly towards the middle finger)

PS. I sort of see 'red bells ringing everywhere' regarding the hypothesis to describe this life line as a mars line (because then at the end one could actually also start arguing that in this hand there might be no life line at all... which would make this topic a rather confusing discussion... because the life line is actually very easy to be found, etc.)

(Sorry, I think we are way off topic regarding the issue of whether the life line says anything about the length of life)

Perhaps those red bells were ringing too loud to think Laughing

Please note that I colored the line you are saying I called a Mars line "aqua", and aqua in my legend is the life line. "C" relates to the Mars Line. (see notes in related post) I left your yellow head line intact.

Most of your response doesn't make sense as you seem to have completely misread and misunderstood my comment.

Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line) - Page 2 Short-11

tajender Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:02 am

Nice description Patti. Martijn simply tries to show other writer's in wrong way. Except Johny and 2d:4d ratio (do not recall the name of the author), all other writers are not qualified authors. Thats what I understand from his comments here.
His depiction of fate line in this particular case shows how he is trying to mislead others.

**Martijn (admin)** Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:52 am

Patti wrote:

Perhaps those red bells were ringing too loud to think

Please note that I colored the line you are saying I called a Mars line "aqua", and aqua in my legend is the life line. "C" relates to the Mars Line. (see notes in related post) I left your yellow head line intact.

Most of your response doesn't make sense as you seem to have completely misread and misunderstood my comment.

Aha...!

Okay, thanks for pointing this out Patti.

Yes, I got confused by your first words in this topic (where you had shared your support for Lynn's considerations which includes the suggestion that the life line could be perceived as a mars line; and as a result I ignored the fact that your picture is does not support that aspect of Lynn's idea about the mars line at all)

PS. I already acknowledged that I understand the argument regarding the 3th part of the fate line being a fate line; but again, because that line is far too short to represent any evidence for the life line theory (about length of life) that was the seed of the discussion in this topic.

Patti wrote:
Lynn wrote:Martijn, thanks for posting your aunts handprint. Indeed it is very similar to how I recall my friend's aunt's hand (who died in her 90's). However I could now find myself arguing - is the red line her lifeline or is it an extended line of mars? Is the green line her fate line or could it be her long lifeline (attached to headline for a long time eg. if she was attached to family for a long time / slow to 'cut the apron strings' / late developer in some way?)?

...

I agree with Lynn's thoughts highlighted in bold above.

**Martijn (admin)** Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:52 am

tajender wrote:Nice description Patti. Martijn simply tries to show other writer's in wrong way. Except Johny and 2d:4d ratio (do not recall the name of the author), all other writers are not qualified authors. Thats what I understand from his comments here.
His depiction of fate line in this particular case shows how he is trying to mislead others.

Tajender, this is not correct. Your words make me wonder: what is going on in your mind? I have not made such a suggestion at all, because I have only disqualified Cheiro's life line theories (regarding age of death)!

Tajender, it's a bit worrisome for me to that in this topic you have described so many incorrect observations (which all serve as an attempt to present some evidence for Cheiro's life line theory)... that you give me the impression that you are only interested in 'confirming evidence' - while meanwhile you are sort of ignoring all contradicting evidence!

Because you appear to jump from theory-to-theory to find confirmation for the 'life line theory'... but meanwhile you are ignoring the fact that I have pointed out that your observations do make much sense at all:

- In your first post in this topic you started with sharing two incorrect observations - because in the hands of Michael Jackson and Benazir Bhutto the life line is simply not short at all!

- Then in your second post you suddenly jumped into the idea that a 'broken' life line should represent their age of death. But the hand cast of Michael Jackson's hand shows that his life line does NOT include an interruption at all!

- And then you asked me to present an example of an old man with a short life line.... and I gave you my example!

(Meanwhile Lynn also presented her example from her memory!)

The truth is that you asked for 'physical and solid evedence' (quoted from your words) ... and we delivered it!

So, after you were corrected regarding your many (superficial) incorrect observations regarding the length of the life line in Cheiro's and Bhutto's hand print... you made various attempts to use other theories to find confirmation for Cheiro's classic life line theory (which I have rejected as well)... and finally now it appears that you are trying to use Patti's comments to suggest that her observations regarding the 3th part of the fate line sort of are enough for you to reject all my feedback & info.

However... Patti has not even started debating the issue of ages - which is essential regarding the key-issue of this topic!

So it appears that you are kind of abusing Patti's efforts... just as an other invalid attempt to find evidence for an OUT-DATED theory!

Sorry, the preceding developments in this topic indicates that it would not make sense for me to start focusing on an arbitrary aspect in this present (= the third part of the fate line)... that has no potential to serve as a confirmation for Cheir's life line theory.

Again, that arbitrary line-part is also far too short to serve as a confirmation for Cheiro's theory.

PS. I can add that by fact many palmistry authors have disqualified the idea that the length of the life line represent the age of death; and quite a few Indian palmists have rejected that theory as well!

Tajender if you continue jumping from the one theory to the other theory (and meanwhile ignoring all contradicting evidence)... you are kind of fooling yourself!

(You might want to contact mister Parender Sethi or mister Upendrasingh Bhadoriya - who are both very experienced Indian palmists that post at this forum on a regular basis - I expect that both will confirm my objections against Cheiro's length of the life line theory)

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Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line)