Re: Any Body Can Give Any Answer For This (length life line)

**Lynn** Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:39 am

hi Jeanette,
First of all, I'm really sorry to hear about your health problems. It's good to see you posting. However I'm sorry to read some of your comments and the way you feel about it, but I appreciate your honesty.

By the way I hope you realise that Patti has not left the forum, she has only resigned from her co-moderator post.

Yes I did tell you in the past - because it was true - that the three of us have always had very heated discussions going back to cybercafe days, and remained friends, hence the 3 of us moderating this forum until last week.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Old Boys Club". I met Martijn on the handreading cybercafe in Dec 1999, and met Patti on the yahoo palmistry group a year later (over New Year 2001), then she joined us on the cafe. (is that correct M & P ?) and we've been thrashing ideas & research out together ever since. We have all learned a lot from each other. So I guess we are all 'old boys'.

I'm sorry if other members felt like outsiders, tho everyone was free to join in the discussion.

I didn't understand the previous objections to 'red writing' - it doesn't come up red on my screen, I call it 'tan' and it is the colour Martijn has always used on his website. As a result of previous complaints, I notice he toned it down a shade.

Sorry Jeanette, I don't accept your comments that I am totally on Martijn's side. I've been accused of this before, but other people have accused me of sitting on the fence! I think Martijn will confirm that we've had many arguments & disagreements where for sure I did not agree with him! And Patti will confirm numerous times when she and I agreed on ideas.

Before I was unable to post I noticed she was responding like you. eg I don't understand your question, what is the point you are making etc.

Well...yes! Because I didn't understand some of Patti's arguments, nor why she posted some of the references - I couldn't see their relevance to the discussion (other than embryo development, which does not seem to help in assessing lifelines of adults). That's not about siding with Martijn, that is about my own understanding of the way I read & understood the literature. (eg I found nothing that said the lifeline has two starting points in development - ie starts at the radial side and also starts at the wrist and meets half way up. The texts said it starts at the radial side and grows down towards the wrist.) If you or anyone else understands what Patti was saying when I questioned her, and can explain it to me, then great! Because it didn't make sense to me at the time and I would like to understand it.

I'm sorry you feel despondent about being left with me & Martijn. It was Patti's choice to resign her co-mod post, I tried my best to ask her to stay.

Thanks for your input Jeannette.

**Lynn** Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:48 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:Hi Patti, its really sad to know that you're leaving the group!

Hi Kiran, I am also sad that Patti resigned her co-moderator role. But Patti has not left the group! If you look at the homepage you will see she is still our companion, where our 3 pictures are side by side. Smile

Patti Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:04 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:
Lynn wrote:
Patti wrote:I think what Kiwi and Boaz have tried to point out is that the criticism from Martijn to me was not constructive but was insulting and rude.

Because of this and because it was reconfirmed by Martijn in a post yesterday, I sent my resignation as moderator in a PM.

No more head banging for me!

Patti, As you know, I was surprised and very sad to receive your resignation P.M. After further PMs I can't persuade you to stay, so I respect your decision, but I will miss you as co-moderator here.
Hi Patti, its really sad to know that you're leaving the group!

Thank you Kiran! As Lynn said, I'm still around in a new capacity and we'll see how we move forward from here.

Patti Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:12 am

Lynn, the idea of the life line forming like the heart line (two sides meeting) does not make a difference in what I had to say about the thenar crease here and is a very weak reason to dismiss my argument.

In rereading this thread, I noticed again where you seem to think I was meaner than Martijn and you said it in a PM too. Please point out where. Was it the banana. He deserved that for using Fig. 1.1-2 when it is right next to 1.1-1 to make a point. (Most)Anyone seriously following the conversation in the moment would have noticed what was going down. You seem to still miss it and the result makes it looks like you have taken sides with Martijn but just didn't call my thoughts absurd or phantasy.

It's okay to disagree, but to disagree in a discussion of this nature should involve some kind of academic or serious references supporting the disagreement. Not some kind of vague recollection as an excuse.

sunny

Patti Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:17 am

jeanette wrote:Patti was great and I just loved when I saw a response from my post coming up for I knew I would get a civilised and helpful response and she gave so much time and was a regular poster. The information she gave to us was wonderful.
.......
We learned so much from Patti and where are we now.
Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette,
I am so happy to see you are able to post again! Sorry there hasn't been much improvement but I hope time will bring healing.

Your words about me are extremely encouraging, and heart warming, as are Kiran's. This is what motivates me to continue.

hug

**Kiran.Katawa** Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:20 am

Patti wrote:
Kiran.Katawa wrote:
Lynn wrote:
Patti wrote:I think what Kiwi and Boaz have tried to point out is that the criticism from Martijn to me was not constructive but was insulting and rude.

Because of this and because it was reconfirmed by Martijn in a post yesterday, I sent my resignation as moderator in a PM.

No more head banging for me!

Patti, As you know, I was surprised and very sad to receive your resignation P.M. After further PMs I can't persuade you to stay, so I respect your decision, but I will miss you as co-moderator here.
Hi Patti, its really sad to know that you're leaving the group!

Thank you Kiran! As Lynn said, I'm still around in a new capacity and we'll see how we move forward from here.

Thank you Lynn for confirming this.

Yes, I too agree with Jeannette - "In the world of palm reading, I am where I am today, 'coz, Patti was there on this journey". Thanks!

Will look forward for more learning and discussions.

**Lynn** Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:27 am

Patti wrote:Lynn, the idea of the life line forming like the heart line (two sides meeting) does not make a difference in what I had to say about the thenar crease here and is a very weak reason to dismiss my argument.

In rereading this thread, I noticed again where you seem to think I was meaner than Martijn and you said it in a PM too. Please point out where. Was it the banana. He deserved that for using Fig. 1.1-2 when it is right next to 1.1-1 to make a point. (Most)Anyone seriously following the conversation in the moment would have noticed what was going down. You seem to still miss it and the result makes it looks like you have taken sides with Martijn but just didn't call my thoughts absurd or phantasy.

Some of your scientific references related to hand developent in the embryo, and I couldn't see how it helped to identify the lines on an adult's hand, where we can't see whether the line formed in a groove that has long since disappeared in the embryo at 14 weeks. I didn't understand the relevance of some of the quotes, pictures from the surgical books etc. Some of them just seemed to describe the course of the thenar crease. I didn't think the poorly drawn lifeline with the break in fig 1.1-2 was proving anything. We can't see the underlying nerves when we are studying a hand. hence all my questions, cos I didn't understand the points you were making with most of the references you quoted.

I didn't say you were meaner than Martijn, I just noticed a few insults from your side too, I think you've deleted the main one.

It's okay to disagree, but to disagree in a discussion of this nature should involve some kind of academic or serious references supporting the disagreement. Not some kind of vague recollection as an excuse.

Are you talking about something specific where I gave 'some kind of vague recollection as an excuse.' ? Let me know and I will try to be less vague about it.

chakraborty Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:35 am

Dear Lynn,

'Just wondering whether this discussion at this stage is adding any value to the Forum ........ although it must be taking away some of your valuable time.

Or may be it's time to apply //Stop watching this topic// button.

regards

**Lynn** Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:39 am

chakraborty wrote:Dear Lynn,

'Just wondering whether this discussion at this stage is adding any value to the Forum ........ although it must be taking away some of your valuable time.

Or may be it's time to apply //Stop watching this topic// button.

regards

hi Chakraborty, I wanted to reply to Jeanette & Patti. But I completely agree with you. Thumbs up!

**Martijn (admin)** Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:20 pm

chakraborty wrote:Dear Lynn,

'Just wondering whether this discussion at this stage is adding any value to the Forum ........ although it must be taking away some of your valuable time.

Or may be it's time to apply //Stop watching this topic// button.

regards

Hello Chakraborty,

I also agree, well said! Thumbs up!

**Martijn (admin)** Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:42 pm

At this stage this topic is closed (for the moment):
any further communication about this topic is welcome via the PM system.

PLEASE NOTICE: It would have been much better if any discussion about 'taking sides' is done via PM - because that concerns arbitrary feedback to other members on a rather personal level (which is obviously not suitable for public posts - especially since such accusations may turn out to be resulting from sentiments).

Two recent contributions inside this topic include suggestive comments in the direction of an accusation of 'taking sides', however, the accusation has not been substantiated with any details from the preceding posts (the 2nd post is featured with a request to Lynn, but I wonder if it is proper to make such a request... AFTER making the accusation first - inside the public part of the forum!).

Regarding Lynn's input earlier in this topic, I would like to remind that earlier in this topic Lynn has shared explicit that she could not support my use of the words 'absurd' and 'delusional' (because of the potential that these could be perceived as insulting), see:
https://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t166p180-any-body-can-give-any-answer-for-this-length-life-line#22773

Therefore I dispute that is any basis at all for accusing Lynn of choosing sides.

(I can understand that Lynn choose not to share all of her observations underlying her feedback in that comment / publicly, probably just to avoid that it would work out as... oil on fire)

Anyway, I am willing to apologize for the side-effects of using those words, but my explanation for using those words still stands

[I would like to add: in line with Lynn's observation that became disputed by Patti today, Patti had already deleted one of her posts (because it included comments solely on a personal level) 1 or 2 days before I had used the two words that I have used; so the current sentiments are not just the result of my use of those two words... for, these sentiments had already entered this topic during the day(s) before I had used those two words!]

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