Nail Ridges

travelingtarotmancer Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:08 pm

Ridges in your nails indicate health problems
Horizontal ridges across your nail usually indicate high blood acidity usually from too much acidic foods oranges, coffee, etc. these are sometimes hard too see but easy to feel and more are common.
While vertical ridges (twoards tip) indicate liver problems usually shows up on people with hepatitis or drinking problems. These are usually easy to see and somewhat less common.

**Lynn** Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:15 pm

hi travelingtarotmancer,

Can I ask the source of your information? I don't remember hearing these interpretations before.

I find longitudinal (vertical) ridges to be very common, much more than horizontal ones, and common in people who don't drink alcohol or have liver problems. They are often found on people who have arthritis, but seem to be mainly due to stress. Horizontal ridges can show some kind of shock to the system, either physical or emotional, where the nail has actually stopped growing for a time.

**Lori** Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:26 pm

In 2005 I developed horizontal nail ridges on my left thumb. Very shortly after I was diagnosed with adrenal exhaustion - my cortisol production was minimal. My right thumb ridges appeared about a year later. I have been experiencing a very difficult menopause.
Nail Ridges Lori_o22

**Martijn (admin)** Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:33 pm

travelingtarotmancer wrote:Ridges in your nails indicate health problems
Horizontal ridges across your nail usually indicate high blood acidity usually from too much acidic foods oranges, coffee, etc. these are sometimes hard too see but easy to feel and more are common.
While vertical ridges (twoards tip) indicate liver problems usually shows up on people with hepatitis or drinking problems. These are usually easy to see and somewhat less common.

"Ridges in your nails indicate health problems"

Sorry, but this first statement above is simply not true at all.

Lynn correctly described that vertical ridges are actually 'very common' and they usually do not indicate health problems - because they basically show the growth direction of the nails!!

Additionally, only when the vertical ridges become very pronounced they can sometimes signal health related problems.

And horizontal ridges are much LESS common than vertical ridges (contrary to the suggestion made by travelingtarotmancer in his post) - and often (not always!) these indicate health related issues: Lori's comments & illustration are an example of this.

For more details I would like to refer to the topic 'The Truth about Your Nails' - where various aspects of the ridges have been discussed.

travelingtarotmancer Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:16 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
travelingtarotmancer wrote:Ridges in your nails indicate health problems
Horizontal ridges across your nail usually indicate high blood acidity usually from too much acidic foods oranges, coffee, etc. these are sometimes hard too see but easy to feel and more are common.
While vertical ridges (twoards tip) indicate liver problems usually shows up on people with hepatitis or drinking problems. These are usually easy to see and somewhat less common.

"Ridges in your nails indicate health problems"

Sorry, but this first statement above is simply not true at all.

Lynn correctly described that vertical ridges are actually 'very common' and they usually do not indicate health problems - because they basically show the growth direction of the nails!!

Additionally, only when the vertical ridges become very pronounced they can sometimes signal health related problems.

And horizontal ridges are much LESS common than vertical ridges (contrary to the suggestion made by travelingtarotmancer in his post) - and often (not always!) these indicate health related issues: Lori's comments & illustration are an example of this.

For more details I would like to refer to the topic 'The Truth about Your Nails' - where various aspects of the ridges have been discussed.

Her horizontal ridges (or waves in her case) are way more pronounced than the vertical ones indicating that horizontal ridges are more common and that you are wrong my friend. The proof is in the pudding. Only when the vertical ridges become extreme do they indicate health problems as you said. Oh yea horizontal ridges indicate the growth direction of the nail not vertical ones. Its goes from the rear cuticle to the tip thats common sense. To be honest i got my resources from many books i cant remember which ones but i have put this theory into practice and find it correct. for example i have noticed horizontal ridges forming when i have had to much coffee or other acidic foods. I have also found the vertical ridges in people with hepatitis extreme vertical ridges and this person had a drinking problem earlier in his life as well. I have also met a woman who was taking medication that was damaging her liver and i saw the vertical lines there as well. High blood acidity can lead to arthritis as well and liver damage. Making horizontal lines more common because the vertical ones are usually a result of the horizontal ones. heres the test go drink some coffe and eat an orange and see what happens. horizontal ridges in your nails.

travelingtarotmancer Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:20 pm

Oh yea did i mention that your emotions effect your eating habits accounting for the horizontal lines forming when you are having emotional problems.

travelingtarotmancer Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:27 pm

the horizontal lines run somewhat parallel to the moon on your finger i think you guys are a little mixed up. while the vertical runs from the rear cuticle to the tip of the finger, parallel with the fingers themselves

**Martijn (admin)** Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:30 pm

travelingtarotmancer wrote:
Her horizontal ridges (or waves in her case) are way more pronounced than the vertical ones indicating that horizontal ridges are more common and that you are wrong my friend. .....

Sounds like you are talking about Lori's example, is that correct?

To me your words suggest that Lori's example provides evidence for your assumption that horizontal ridges are much more common than vertical ridges... however, I think you were misinformed about this. For example, your opinion (described in your first post) is also opposed by the info provided by medical sources - such as for example given by Dr Lawrence E. Gibson, M.D.:

"Vertical nail ridges are fairly common and nothing to worry about. Vertical nail ridges extend from the cuticle to the tip of the nail. Vertical nail ridges often become more numerous or prominent with age, possibly due to variations in cell turnover within the nail."

PS. Dear travelingtarotmancer, just to exclude the possibility that you somehow got confused by the vocabular used in the books, the picture below presents an example of 'vertical ridges':

Only the 'vertical ridges' indicate the growth direction of the nail: because the ridges point towards the point of the finger - just like the growth direction of the nail! (Contrary to the 'horizontal ridges'... which are positioned at a right angle to the growth direction)

Nail Ridges Ans7_vertical_ridging

Patti Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:44 pm

Just from years of observation, I'd say the vertical ridges are much more common. They become more noticible with age. It's more unusual not to see them on nails. Some people file/buff them smooth. They can sometimes form as a result of damage to the cuticle at the base of the nail. I agree with Lynn's remarks about the horizontal ridges. Vertical is proximal-distal - I think we're all in agreement with that.

Patti Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:59 pm

Lori wrote:In 2005 I developed horizontal nail ridges on my left thumb. Very shortly after I was diagnosed with adrenal exhaustion - my cortisol production was minimal. My right thumb ridges appeared about a year later. I have been experiencing a very difficult menopause.

Thank you Lori for sharing your thumb nails! The only time I have seen nails in this extreme shape was on a woman who had horrible PMS symptoms. Since the nail grows out in about 5 1/2 to 6 months average, the monthly cycle shows in the rows of horizontal ridges. So I find it interesting that you have been having a difficult menopause. Do you sense there is still a cycle of ups and downs or hormone changes?

I haven't Googled the condition you mentioned so I don't know if your nails are a result. Is it only the thumbnails? If so, I would wonder if you get severe neck, head and upper shoulder pain periodically - like every other week or more recently for as long a period as a month.

The right nail is interesting in how nearer the base the nail is very low and then rises steeply upwards. A couple of thoughts. If the nail bed has become damaged then the nail will grow over the bed in the same condition and will look about the same continuously. If the horizontal ridges are a reaction to what is happening in your emotional/physical life then the ridge or valley would develop at the nail base before the nail has grown visible. Are you aware if the nails always look the same or the ridges grow out and change over time?

Thanks!

<edit>

I just Googled Adrenal Fatique and then realized I have a copy of "Adrenal Fatique, The 21st Century Stress Syndrome". I picked it up right after it came out as I have noticed that many illnesses are stress related. Most of the illness we can read in the hand is really the stress caused by the illness, or we see the stress that is causing the illness. My search for info on Adrenal Fatique and fingernails came up with results that related to a softening of the nails. As a palmist and not a doctor, my thought is that the condition of the nails is a result of the chronic prolonged stress that caused the Adrenal Fatique.

**Martijn (admin)** Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:25 pm

Patti wrote:Just from years of observation, I'd say the vertical ridges are much more common. They become more noticible with age. It's more unusual not to see them on nails. Some people file/buff them smooth. They can sometimes form as a result of damage to the cuticle at the base of the nail. I agree with Lynn's remarks about the horizontal ridges. Vertical is proximal-distal - I think we're all in agreement with that.

Hi Patti,

Yes,... you, Lynn and I for sure agree about all these aspects.

However, did you actually notice the details which travelingtarotmancer used to describe for the horizontal ridges:

"Oh yea horizontal ridges indicate the growth direction of the nail not vertical ones. Its goes from the rear cuticle to the tip thats common sense."

So, while he talks here about 'common sense'... I think by fact he actually describes that the horizontal ridges grow from the cuticle to the tip - which is not true at all! Because, while the horizontal ridges IN TIME grow (progress) from the cuticle to the tip... only the direction of the 'vertical ridges' grow from the cuticle to the tip - both regarding their direction + how they progress in time!

Therefore I this comment made by travelingtarotmancer confirms my hypothesis that he somehow got confused about the vocabulary used in the books: he probably mixed up the name of the 'horizontal ridges' with the name of the 'vertical ridges'.

Which also explains why Lynn and I could not agree with his earlier comments!!

lol!

Patti Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:36 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:Just from years of observation, I'd say the vertical ridges are much more common. They become more noticible with age. It's more unusual not to see them on nails. Some people file/buff them smooth. They can sometimes form as a result of damage to the cuticle at the base of the nail. I agree with Lynn's remarks about the horizontal ridges. Vertical is proximal-distal - I think we're all in agreement with that.

Hi Patti,

Yes,... you, Lynn and I for sure agree about all these aspects.

But did you notice that travelingtarotmancer said:

"Oh yea horizontal ridges indicate the growth direction of the nail not vertical ones. Its goes from the rear cuticle to the tip thats common sense."

So, while he talks here about 'common sense'... I think by fact he actually describes that the horizontal ridges grow from the cuticle to the tip - which is not true at all! Because, while the horizontal ridges IN TIME grow (progress) from the cuticle to the tip... only the direction of the 'vertical ridges' grow from the cuticle to the tip - both regarding their direction + how they progress in time!

Therefore I this comment made by travelingtarotmancer confirms my hypothesis that he somehow got confused about the vocabulary used in the books: he probably mixed up the name of the 'horizontal ridges' with the name of the 'vertical ridges'.

Which also explains why Lynn and I could not agree with his earlier comments!!

Maybe it's just the use of words here... But, I'd say the nails grow from proximal to distal. Base to tip. I think we are all saying that...right? The horizontal ridges do grow out with the nail (vertically - proximal to distal) and can be somewhat timed as to when they formed.

**Lynn** Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:38 pm

Martijn, I don't think tarotmancer got mixed up between the direction of horizontal and vertical, because he says:

travelingtarotmancer wrote:the horizontal lines run somewhat parallel to the moon on your finger i think you guys are a little mixed up. while the vertical runs from the rear cuticle to the tip of the finger, parallel with the fingers themselves

Tarotmancer it sounds like you based your thoughts about the health conditions on only a very few case studies?

regarding your comment

travelingtarotmancer wrote: heres the test go drink some coffe and
eat an orange and see what happens. horizontal ridges in your
nails.

how soon after this do you expect to see the horizontal ridges? NB I drink lots of coffee, I don't have any horizontal ridges.

PS Patti we were writing at the same time. I agree with what you said about direction of growth.

travelingtarotmancer Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:32 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
travelingtarotmancer wrote:
Her horizontal ridges (or waves in her case) are way more pronounced than the vertical ones indicating that horizontal ridges are more common and that you are wrong my friend. .....

Sounds like you are talking about Lori's example, is that correct?

To me your words suggest that Lori's example provides evidence for your assumption that horizontal ridges are much more common than vertical ridges... however, I think you were misinformed about this. For example, your opinion (described in your first post) is also opposed by the info provided by medical sources - such as for example given by Dr Lawrence E. Gibson, M.D.:

"Vertical nail ridges are fairly common and nothing to worry about. Vertical nail ridges extend from the cuticle to the tip of the nail. Vertical nail ridges often become more numerous or prominent with age, possibly due to variations in cell turnover within the nail."

PS. Dear travelingtarotmancer, just to exclude the possibility that you somehow got confused by the vocabular used in the books, the picture below presents an example of 'vertical ridges':

Only the 'vertical ridges' indicate the growth direction of the nail: because the ridges point towards the point of the finger - just like the growth direction of the nail! (Contrary to the 'horizontal ridges'... which are positioned at a right angle to the growth direction)

Yes, talking about Lori's example
What I mean is that the vertical ridges that indicate health problems are somewhat less common. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Our liver is always detoxifying our bodies making it so you always have the lines to a sleight degree. Somewhat of a reflection of what it says in your quote of Lawrence E. Gibson, M.D. "possibly due to variations in cell turnover within the nail." The reason why i beleive it is less common is because the problems that start with horizontal lines can lead to vertical lines. I beleive Lori is an example of this. As you can see she has deep horizontal waves and one very pronounced verticle ridge on her left thumb. Thus starting with the more prounounced horizontal lines and eventually ending up with verticle lines. About your comment on the direction of nail growth. Nails start growth in the proximal nail bed out towoards the fingertip. A horizontal ridge would be going with the growth of the nail entirely. While a vertical ridge would be going with the growth of the nail in one place. This is what my common sense suggests. Although there is still some controversy about it. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7204694#.

travelingtarotmancer Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:50 am

Lynn wrote:Martijn, I don't think tarotmancer got mixed up between the direction of horizontal and vertical, because he says:

travelingtarotmancer wrote:the horizontal lines run somewhat parallel to the moon on your finger i think you guys are a little mixed up. while the vertical runs from the rear cuticle to the tip of the finger, parallel with the fingers themselves

Tarotmancer it sounds like you based your thoughts about the health conditions on only a very few case studies?

regarding your comment
travelingtarotmancer wrote: heres the test go drink some coffe and
eat an orange and see what happens. horizontal ridges in your
nails.
how soon after this do you expect to see the horizontal ridges? NB I drink lots of coffee, I don't have any horizontal ridges.

PS Patti we were writing at the same time. I agree with what you said about direction of growth.

I usually inquire about the nails if i see ridges and have found it to be true. They range from not so noticeable to highly noticeable using that to gauge the severity of the imbalance. These types of imbalances have a play into other diseases. You have both types of ridges.... your horizontal ridges are more like waves. you cant see it if you already have em....
Thank you for understanding...

**zaobhand** Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:13 am

I used to have vertical ridges on my nails but they diminished significantly by change in diet. It makes sense that these are stress related. Better nutrition improves our ability to cope with stress as well reducing it by making us more alkaline and relaxed.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:11 am

Lynn wrote:Martijn, I don't think tarotmancer got mixed up between the direction of horizontal and vertical, because he says:

travelingtarotmancer wrote:the horizontal lines run somewhat parallel to the moon on your finger i think you guys are a little mixed up. while the vertical runs from the rear cuticle to the tip of the finger, parallel with the fingers themselves

Yes Lynn, that's correct.

But I think the problem could be here that in his confusion (about what the books exactly describe - he didn't mention any sources) he describes conflicting observations. And as a result he thinks/assumes that horizontal ridges are more common than vertical ridges... even while the books + all medical authorities describe the reverse!

Also, please be aware that in his very first post... he sort of suggested that the 'vertical ridges' are the more worrisome!!! (While most of use here are very aware that the 'horizontal ridges' are usually much more worrisome than the 'vertical ridges', etc. etc.)

And I haven't even started commenting his statements about the meaning of the various type of ridges, etc. I think he should have started mentioning that some ridges are harmless and actually very common... but since he didn't do that - and even denied some of the the basic info that we shared - I think there is no solid basis for a fruitful discussion with this guy ... because his ideas/observations show far too many doubtful statements, and even in time he might not able to recognize the validity of our statements, etc.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:12 am

zaobhand wrote:I used to have vertical ridges on my nails but they diminished significantly by change in diet. It makes sense that these are stress related. Better nutrition improves our ability to cope with stress as well reducing it by making us more alkaline and relaxed.

Yes Boaz, that's correct: nutrition & stress can explain minor changes in the vertical ridges of the nails.

**zaobhand** Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:17 am

Martijn, Not minor at all. I didn't have the situation shown in the photos here, but definitely a significant improvement. hand dance

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:34 am

Patti wrote:
Maybe it's just the use of words here... But, I'd say the nails grow from proximal to distal. Base to tip. I think we are all saying that...right? The horizontal ridges do grow out with the nail (vertically - proximal to distal) and can be somewhat timed as to when they formed.

Yes Patti, your statement is correct... but your words ('horizontal ridges do grow out with the nail') actually oppose what travelingtarotmancer described ('horizontal ridges indicate the growth direction of the nail not vertical ones')... because your statement is true but his statement is not true.

I already described how statements can become confusing when one started mixing up the growth direction with the alignment!!!

(Again, only the alignment + the growth direction of the vertical ridges indicates the growth direction of the nails... so the vertical ridges grow out in the same direction as how they are aligned - towards the tip of the finger.

However, the alignment of the horizontal ridges is positioned at a right angle to the growth direction of the nail... and for this reason the horizontal ridges definitely do not indicate the growth direction of the nail.

It might take some proper understanding of angles in mathematics in order to recognize/understand some of the errors in the statements made by travelingtarotmancer)

**zaobhand** Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:37 am

Martijn, I agree that travelingtarotmancer needs to study and think more before making statements.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:53 am

Lynn wrote:

regarding your comment

travelingtarotmancer wrote: heres the test go drink some coffe and
eat an orange and see what happens. horizontal ridges in your
nails.
how soon after this do you expect to see the horizontal ridges? NB I drink lots of coffee, I don't have any horizontal ridges.

Lynn... I like coffee as well, and I prefer to eat a few oranges per week. But I never had any 'horizontal ridges'. And actually, I never heard that common foods can create nail changes.

(Obviously, I am sceptic about the validity of travelingtarotmancer's test)

And please be aware that travelingtarotmancer suggested that the 'vertical ridges' are much more worrisome. He also made the following statement:

"Making horizontal lines more common because [u]the vertical ones are usually a result of the horizontal ones."

Could this somehow make sense for you?

(Just like his test this statement doesn't make sense to me either)

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:02 am

zaobhand wrote:Martijn, I agree that travelingtarotmancer needs to study and think more before making statements.

Yes Boaz, I fully support your conclusion... but I don't expect him to follow your advice, because in his 2nd statement he already (immediately) started using words like:

"...you are wrong my friend"

(Where he was talking about characteristics in Lori's photos... while I had not made any comments about those photos at all - so he somehow must have misunderstood/misjudged my comments. But maybe this is hardly a surprise ... because he wrote various conflicting statements, etc)

**zaobhand** Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:11 am

It is part of the challenge of an open forum which offers many advantages such as inspiring questions by newcomers but also less substantiated statements.

**Lynn** Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:04 am

Lynn wrote: NB I drink lots of coffee, I don't have any horizontal ridges.

travelingtarotmancer wrote:....You have both types of ridges.... your horizontal ridges are more like waves. you cant see it if you already have em....

I've never had any horizontal ridges. Are you confusing me with Lori?

Martijn, I (kind-of) understand what tarotmancer is saying about "A horizontal ridge would be going with the growth of the nail entirely. While a vertical ridge would be going with the growth of the nail in one place." He is talking about same direction of nail growth / alignment as we are. I don't think there is any misunderstanding of angles etc, just misunderstanding of words!

tarotmancer re

The reason why i beleive it is less common is because the problems that start with horizontal lines can lead to vertical lines. I beleive Lori
is an example of this. As you can see she has deep horizontal waves and one very pronounced verticle ridge on her left thumb. Thus starting with the more prounounced horizontal lines and eventually ending up with verticle lines.

How did you make that conclusion? We don't know which ridges developed first on Lori's nails.

What I mean is that the vertical ridges that indicate health problems
are somewhat less common. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Our liver is
always detoxifying our bodies making it so you always have the lines to a
sleight degree.

Did I understand this correctly - you are saying that vertical ridges that indicate health problems are somewhat less common than vertical ridges that do not indicate health problems? In your first post it seemed you were saying that vertical ridges are somewhat less common than horizontal ridges, hence our arguments -you only have to look at lots of hands to know that you see more vertical ridges than horizontal.

Did you read any medical / scientific studies that correlate nail ridges with liver problems? I've never heard it before.... and I'm not sure it is true? Looking at a small sample of hands of alcoholics, people with hepatitis, cirrhosis, I noticed how unusually flat and smooth the nails were (in my perception, I am not stating it as fact). (PS I guess the flatness was bordering on 'spoon shaped nails', also pale - probably anaemia??).

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