Interaction of palmarprints and fingerprints

**anand_palm** Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:35 am

Hello all

I have joined your forum and would like to know some details on how fingerprints and palmarprints go together. For example how does the combination of palmarprints with fingerpritns work for life purpose.

Example
1) If a person has no seriousness loop how would that affect life purpose when the fingerprints show artist as life purpose or mentor as life purpose.

I would appreciate if you can provide me with your valuable inputs.

Thanks
Anand

**Lynn** Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:38 am

hello anand,
welcome to the forum. Sorry you had no replies so far, I guess because only a few people here study (Richard Unger's system) "Life Purpose" via the fingerprints. Maybe they didn't see your message yet.

from a layman's point of view, I think in one sense the "Life Purpose" remains unchanged by other hand features, yet the way in which we create/enact our life purpose is very much dependent on the rest of the hand. I think it is not necessary to have a "seriousness loop" but for example it might help if there is a good fate line.

out of interest, regarding artist / mentor - are you talking about whorls on ring & little fingers?
(please forgive any mistakes, I am still learning Richard Unger's system).

sv-b Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:26 am

Hello anand, Smile

Here, I quote from another thread .

stalin.v wrote:119th deals about paucity of monthly earnings. If the fate line or a short line above the heart line terminates either between the index and saturn finger at 188th saturn's sea or between the saturn and sun finger at sun's sea indicates paucity of monthly earnings although his earnings are increasing more like the stream of river through arts or agriculture or educated fields, or coolie works.

https://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/vb-traditional-palmistry-from-india-f34/canonical-text-on-palmistry-300-written-by-kamala-maa-muni-t283-45.htm

Though, it is not related to finger print. but, related to the location of loop of serious and raja loop. (raja loop, loop of serious, and loop of humor or it's respective locations are termed as jupiter sea, saturn sea and sun sea by this traditional method)

**anand_palm** Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:43 am

Hello Lynn, Stalin

I really appreciate your effort on providing me the information, even i have read that book however i feel that the complete system needs to be analysed with respect to pritns. One of the reasons is that based on fingerprints at the top phalange of the fingers indicates your mental thinking or philosphpical thinking or abstract thinking and a comparison on the overall picture with respect to fingers at top phalange is done for lifepurpose. However in his book he has mentioned that palmar prints may not count for life purpose and only whorls are counted for life purpose from palmar prints. for example the seriousness loop might add on a effect to saturn mount and improve its qualities. For example if a person who does not have a seriousness loop but has whorl on saturn finger may not be that serious in acheiving the corresponding life purpose. He probably could acheive the life purpose but may be he might hurt others in the process due to lack of seriousness loop ( iam not sure iam just guessing). Still i think nobody is clear on how these palmar prints and fingerprints interact. I did ask but iam not able to get clear answe.

I did have a look at einstein hand and he does have these loops and do these loops help in anyway acheiving his life purpose, the comparison can only be made by doing with a person who has similar fingerprints and with and without loop palmar prints. This could possibly provide a better answer.

or Is there a possibilty that palmar prints (Loops on various mounts) should be analysed differently from fingerprints and but should have seperate purpose. Iam not sure, but just a thought.

I would appreciate if you can provide valuable inputs based on your knowledge and experience.

Thanks
Anand

**anand_palm** Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:17 am

Hello Pamelah, Lynn, Stalin

In respect to life purpose i suppose we have to analyse prints on the finger tips and whorls on the palmar side in case any is avaialabe, however when an hand ananlysis is done as whole there are intergidital loops (Seriuosness loop, Raja Loop, Humor loop, vanity ect..) which come into a play. In case of einstein he had 7 whorls on fingertips, 8 or 9 loops (Fingertips+Palmar). How would you account for his life lesson, for example if loops are equally high as whorls, in such as case
should we conclude that he has to be emotinally attached to acheive life purpose.
I do understand from unger system that palmar loops+ arches ect do not usually count their way, but in einstein or in similar cases how do you account it.

Can you all help me out in this.

Thanks
Anand

sv-b Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:49 pm

Hello anand, Smile

Anand, I appreciate your thoughts , as you keep on trying to understand the relation between finger prints and palmar crease. Let me make you understand and remember one thing as I have said to many westerns and easterns that our name, family member's names and their identity and their death day too are predictable through just reading their thumb prints in india.

Genetic researchers, can confirm you the genetic details of a person through his any cell of his body ie., a hair, or through any cell of humanbody as that would be for the purpose of identification. But, Predictive palmistry can do better beyond the purpose of science.

Indeed , your questions are extreme category though i know that you have asked few. JUST SIMPLE SUGGESTION IS THAT LEARN MORE ABOUT PALM BEFORE ASKING THIS QUESTION. I KNOW THAT IT'S UNFAIR ANSWER. BUT, I ALSO KNOW THAT PROFESSIONAL PALMISTS CAN ANSWER YOU TO THIS QUESTIONS IF THEY CAN. STILL, IF YOU READY TO ASK ME YOUR QUESTION IN STEP BY STEP MANNER, I CAN GIVE YOU BETTER ANSWERS. SORRY TO MENTION HERE THAT I AM A MEDICAL STUDENT. I KNOW THE SCIENTIC AS WELL AS OCCULTISM IMPORTANTENCES OF DERMATOGLYPICS.

As per my knowledge, occultism has more significances than today's modern science.

Again, my best suggestion is that ask us your questions in step by step manner rather than asking your atmost intellectual thoughts blandly. (though, i could sense your questions) Smile

it's not easy. because we can find the boss of our office who have 10 loops. At the mean while, we can find the manual labourer who have 10 whorls in his hand. How will you verify the difference now? I think, you wont have further questions. still, i welcome them if you have any. Smile

**Pamelah** Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:32 am

Palmar fingerprints are as complicated as fingerprints on the fingers. There isn't one answer. There is a dynamic between the fingerprints on the fingers and on the palms. For example (and this is only one example), if somebody had 10 loops on the fingers and had a whorl anywhere on teh palm, the whorl would count as the Life Purpose. But if a person had 10 whorls on the fingers and a loop on the palm, then the loop wouldn't really be in the conversation of Life Purpose. There are so many interdependent factors to answer this clearly.

**Parender** Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:48 pm

Fingerprints and lines on the hands are topographical maps. On one hand have a definite scientific method to study these maps of fingerprints; where on the other hand much of the palmistry study and revelations are based on folklore or traditional meanings. We should mingle both the maps to get a definite direction from them, despite their arising from different backgrounds, because you need the basic knowledge of palmistry too to be perfect in deciphering your life Purpose from your fingerprints. We should try to balance the modern techniques with the intuitive gift and past experiences. It is like that one can move easiest who has learned how to dance. I can say Dermatoglyphic and Palmistry were made for each other.

Likewise, I link pattern on right Middle finger or Saturn finger with money issues and find it correct. Right middle finger shows money issues because I think a directional transverse line or a true line of fate usually ends at the mount of Saturn or under the Saturn finger and that line and area denotes about the career or fate of a person. Link Middle Finger with the issues relating self-worth of a person. The deep uncut clear directional transverse with whorl pattern there on the tip certainly denotes self control and definite likings and disliking.

If there is whorl found on this finger tips than be sure that the subject will be able to perform his duties successfully. However, the loops on the middle finger indicate the presence of a more live and let live attitude in the person. The starting point, course and termination and quality of directional transverse on the palm will confirm all this. Accordingly, if low value Arch is found there then Directional Transverse will be according to the pattern in quality.

The low rank patterns like Arches on the right middle fingertip denote that the subject generally would not be able to perform his duties successfully with ease because things would not be in his favor or control fully. The weak or defective quality of directional transverse or Head Line will confirm this reading. I try to establish combinations between both the maps.

All in all Dermatoglyphic and Palmistry were made for each other.

PMS Sethi
http://www.palmistryforyou.in/

**anand_palm** Tue May 10, 2011 3:35 pm

Hello Sethi Sir, Lynn and Stalin

Sorry i had been held up for months i really did not have time to look up at the forum.

Regarding Palmar fingerPrints and Finger Fingerpritns

1) Based on penrose , cummins and mildo who have studied scientifically about these prints they have classified a basis for identifying the pattern and found out various formulas for classification, one such formula which penrose devised is on triradius which provides the following formula Total Trirdaius = (No of loops on Fingers)+(Loops on Palm)+ Total number of fingers -2, please note he categorized whorls as equivalent to two loops, of course whorl can also have a maximum of 3 triradius. According to his scientific theory two loops combined together form a whorl. His fundamental rational if understood properly is that the triradius and loop account for the basis of formation of loop and whorl.
2) My thought based on this was that since tririadius and loops are forming element then accounting for the total number of triradius becomes the crucial factor in understanding of the hand. This total number with the number of loops will be allocated according to the fingers and palms in accordance. ofcourse these thinghs have been split as pattern intensity for fingers and pattern intensity for palm, still research is on way on what affects finger patterns and palmar patterns and are they both operating independently, however what seems to be right is the total number of triadius.
3) This triradius which according to hinduism can be called as trinity (holy trinity) and it is the energy centre from a spirutual point of view.
4) Now my question is when we are studying the whole palmistry subject dont you think the whole triradius should be accounted for as this gives the total energy of an human being. based on which we can see how these allocation are.
5) now just accounting for things based on fingers would make us loose the other triradius which are present in the palm.
Iam trying to find out this answer through various articles, papers and books abd forums iam not able to get a clear picture on this, if a clear picture is formed then there would be good rule based system on hand as whole so that the total triradius is utilized.
I would appreciate an insight on this.
Thanks
Anand

Patti Tue May 10, 2011 4:52 pm

anand_palm wrote:
3) This triradius which according to hinduism can be called as trinity (holy trinity) and it is the energy centre from a spirutual point of view.
4) Now my question is when we are studying the whole palmistry subject dont you think the whole triradius should be accounted for as this gives the total energy of an human being. based on which we can see how these allocation are.

Hello Anand,
Dermatoglyphics is one of my favorite subjects!
I agree that the patterns in the palm should be taken into consideration with the fingerprints.

You posted your question in the category for Richard Unger's system which relates to one's life purpose and their fingerprints. Simply because he focused on the fingerprints, doesn't exclude or limit the value of the patterns found on the palms.

I've read about 32 signs/symbols/markings (??) found on the hands of the Buddha. Someone with ten whorls could have 20 triradii on the fingers, plus 8 under the fingers, and with a whorl on each palm, 4 more triradii. Do you have any insights on that?

The idea that three fields meeting forming the triradius in the human hand is interesting. In some primate's palms, there is a place where 4 fields meet.

Could you share more thoughts about the spiritual energy center of the triradii or point me to a good resource. I have been thinking about mudras and how the pressing of one finger against another relates to combining energy fields.

Thanks!

shivam_palmistry Wed May 11, 2011 2:52 pm

Hello Patti

Thanks for your reply, there are lot of thinghs iam not sure that is is there are rule based system to interpret dermatoglphyics as a whole. For example everybody on palm would have a minimum of 4 triradius so that accoutns on every palm, however addition of loop or whorl intensifies the triradius. In richard unger he gives consideration only when whorls occur on palm when the question of lifepurpose is needed. But i personally think that triradius plays the more crucial role than do patterns. I just beleive the rule of three plays a very important rule when spirutuality is added, that is why i thought triradius (three divergence) play a crucial role. Even if you take einstein hand fo rwhom i have a regard he had 7 whorls on fingers, 5 palmar loops on palm, if you have taken his his total based on this then number of triradius becomes a lot, in case u just allocate to use only 7 wholrs then his triradius becomes lesser, i will give u a comparison when a person does not have plamar loops but has only whorls on all his fingers and then the system of unger becomes easier for such a person, eventhough his total number of triradius may be lesser than einstein. In such case what do you do, dont you think, acounting for what is actually given needs to be taken. So my thought was that if a system needs to be encompassed it has to first consider total triradius and then go about patterns. There are lot of thinghs which seem to fall in a grey area where there is no hard rule that it needs to be like this.

If a person has highest number of triradius then he has higher chances of moksha irrespective of the pattern, ofcourse patterns would enhance the power but triadius is the powerful sign.

Even if you taken temples, pyramids, christian symbols, judaic symbols they have all given importance to triangle (three points), even in hinduism we give importnace to three gods Lord shiva (who creates new beginning by his cosmic dance, who destroys evil) Lord Bhrama (through him creation starts), Vishnu (who preserves) and you can see here it comes to three gods.
In palmistry if you see traingles on the mounts then it enhances the quality of mount, probably due to its immense energy.
In temples of india, if you had a chance to enter you would see two traingles (One Inverted) merged together symblosing life orginates when the male and female are combined and would see in most hindu temples, especially in the southern part of india you would see more.

Also i have noticed people who might not have whorls on palm, can have whorls on soles, of course iam not saying soles and palm are the same, but a system has to encompass everyhtinghh completely then you can get complete answers.

Beleive dermatoglyphcis, mystery, astroolgy needs to copmplete and reevaluated as and when science progresses for sure people will ask more questions

Please give me some of your thoughts, i would appreciate it. It seems to be lot more tougher then what i thought.

**anand_palm** Thu May 12, 2011 2:53 pm

Hello Patti

Unger system focusses on palm only when whorls are present, however in case of exception his system will not encompass the total triradii, as u mentioned buddha had 20 triradii on finger and 2 whorls on palm hence 24. however this works only when pattern are given importance not enegry centres which are triradii. There are people who have palmar pattern which have lot of loops like 3 on left and 3 on right hence total triraddii on becomes 6, in such cases the number of triraddii is more than budhha palm eventhough his finger might have 7 or 8 whorls equivalent to 14 or 16 triradii. if you look from a totality point his number of triradii is almost same as budhha however if you allocate a system buddhha wins and he losses whereas if you do not then both can be the same.
So my thought was would there be any system which can be built on acoutning for total number of triraddii and patterns put together. iam not getting a satisfcation from this point of view as it favors one more and other less due to these kind of combinations, in such cases what should be done. My thought was based on penrose, cummins and other giants in this field use the concept of total number of tririaddii formula given by penrose. ofcourse if you think a bit in depth you would ask this question does the total number of triradii provides triradii for fingers and provides triradii for palm or do the fingers and palm put togther form the total number of triradii is still a debatable question, ofcourse for formation of patterns based on penrose theory there should be a loop with the triradii. but the main element is triradii, now iam not sure what forms first when ridges are formed is the triradii or is the pattern even if it is the pattern then 3 pattern needs to be formed first, so unless these are clear can answers be clear. different people have different version on whether triradius forms first or not, but based on what i think there has to be starting point and it looks like the starting point shopuld be trirdaius.

since you have been in this field your input would be handy.

Thanks
Anand

Patti Thu May 12, 2011 5:44 pm

shivam_palmistry wrote: Hello Patti

Thanks for your reply, there are lot of thinghs iam not sure that is is there are rule based system to interpret dermatoglphyics as a whole. For example everybody on palm would have a minimum of 4 triradius so that accoutns on every palm, however addition of loop or whorl intensifies the triradius.

Hi Shivam,
Here I'm thinking you mean minimum of 4 to refer to a minimum of 3 triradii under the fingers instead of the typical 4 and 1 axial triradius.

Penrose says "in a large field of parallel ridges, every loop must be neutralized by the presence of a triradius."

shivam_palmistry wrote:
In richard unger he gives consideration only when whorls occur on palm when the question of lifepurpose is needed. But i personally think that triradius plays the more crucial role than do patterns.

I don't know if I'd say 'more crucial' as I think each relates to a different energy. The pattern is forming and complete or near complete before the triradius is formed. The pattern causes the triradius to happen, not the other way around.

shivam_palmistry wrote:I just beleive the rule of three plays a very important rule when spirutuality is added, that is why i thought triradius (three divergence) play a crucial role.

There are three different fields (of energy) flowing in different directions meeting at the same point for a triradius. A pattern is 1 field bending and 2 or more fields interacting as a whorl or double loop. The descriptions lead me to think of different energies.

shivam_palmistry wrote:Even if you take einstein hand fo rwhom i have a regard he had 7 whorls on fingers, 5 palmar loops on palm, if you have taken his his total based on this then number of triradius becomes a lot, in case u just allocate to use only 7 wholrs then his triradius becomes lesser, i will give u a comparison when a person does not have plamar loops but has only whorls on all his fingers and then the system of unger becomes easier for such a person, eventhough his total number of triradius may be lesser than einstein. In such case what do you do, dont you think, acounting for what is actually given needs to be taken. So my thought was that if a system needs to be encompassed it has to first consider total triradius and then go about patterns. There are lot of thinghs which seem to fall in a grey area where there is no hard rule that it needs to be like this.

I just recently purchased Richard's 1st book, I had copies of material from his earlier courses from a number of years ago, but I haven't seriously studied them. I recall from discussions with Richard, when he occasionally interacted on a forum about ten years back, he studies the entire hand.

As to why he considered patterns over triradii would be something you would need to ask him or one of his students.

The idea of doing life purpose readings from fingerprints is something he personally developed. Probably he was inspired by work done in forensics earlier categorizing the prints and the crime. Forensic specialists didn't collect palm prints.

shivam_palmistry wrote:If a person has highest number of triradius then he has higher chances of moksha irrespective of the pattern, ofcourse patterns would enhance the power but triadius is the powerful sign.

Even if you taken temples, pyramids, christian symbols, judaic symbols they have all given importance to triangle (three points), even in hinduism we give importnace to three gods Lord shiva (who creates new beginning by his cosmic dance, who destroys evil) Lord Bhrama (through him creation starts), Vishnu (who preserves) and you can see here it comes to three gods.
In palmistry if you see traingles on the mounts then it enhances the quality of mount, probably due to its immense energy.
In temples of india, if you had a chance to enter you would see two traingles (One Inverted) merged together symblosing life orginates when the male and female are combined and would see in most hindu temples, especially in the southern part of india you would see more.

I agree that there is 'something' to the 'energy' of triangles. The two triangles merged together has caught my attention strongly these past few weeks, particularly the merkaba and the flower of life symbols.

shivam_palmistry wrote:
Also i have noticed people who might not have whorls on palm, can have whorls on soles, of course iam not saying soles and palm are the same, but a system has to encompass everyhtinghh completely then you can get complete answers.

Beleive dermatoglyphcis, mystery, astroolgy needs to copmplete and reevaluated as and when science progresses for sure people will ask more questions

Please give me some of your thoughts, i would appreciate it. It seems to be lot more tougher then what i thought.

The soles have been studied for their patterns. The feet lag by about a week in development. The ball of the big toe almost always has a big whorl or loop pattern. I think the agility of the palms and fingers make their markings more interesting to study than the feet.

Yes, it is a pretty intense study, but fascinating! For me, studying the development of our hands has only added to my ability to recognize why we can better understand ourselves from studying our hands.

Patti Thu May 12, 2011 6:30 pm

anand_palm wrote:Hello Patti

Unger system focusses on palm only when whorls are present, however in case of exception his system will not encompass the total triradii, as u mentioned buddha had 20 triradii on finger and 2 whorls on palm hence 24. however this works only when pattern are given importance not enegry centres which are triradii. There are people who have palmar pattern which have lot of loops like 3 on left and 3 on right hence total triraddii on becomes 6, in such cases the number of triraddii is more than budhha palm eventhough his finger might have 7 or 8 whorls equivalent to 14 or 16 triradii. if you look from a totality point his number of triradii is almost same as budhha however if you allocate a system buddhha wins and he losses whereas if you do not then both can be the same.
So my thought was would there be any system which can be built on acoutning for total number of triraddii and patterns put together. iam not getting a satisfcation from this point of view as it favors one more and other less due to these kind of combinations, in such cases what should be done. My thought was based on penrose, cummins and other giants in this field use the concept of total number of tririaddii formula given by penrose. ofcourse if you think a bit in depth you would ask this question does the total number of triradii provides triradii for fingers and provides triradii for palm or do the fingers and palm put togther form the total number of triradii is still a debatable question, ofcourse for formation of patterns based on penrose theory there should be a loop with the triradii. but the main element is triradii, now iam not sure what forms first when ridges are formed is the triradii or is the pattern even if it is the pattern then 3 pattern needs to be formed first, so unless these are clear can answers be clear. different people have different version on whether triradius forms first or not, but based on what i think there has to be starting point and it looks like the starting point shopuld be trirdaius.

since you have been in this field your input would be handy.

Thanks
Anand

I just realized you and Shivam are probably the same person! Laughing

Not two different people with nearly identical posts. You probably should use just one i.d. and eliminate the other.

Regards to words in bold in your post.

The area that is labeled the 'core' is the center of the pattern and typically the very first location for ridges to form. Only a few ridges form at the center. They rarely radiate outward from the center in development. Ridges then form above the distal interphalangeal crease and along the developing nail bed - distally and laterally, move inwards and meet each other.

Patti Thu May 12, 2011 6:34 pm

Parender wrote: It is like that one can move easiest who has learned how to dance. I can say Dermatoglyphic and Palmistry were made for each other.

PMS Sethi
http://www.palmistryforyou.in/

Hi Parender,
I like this! Thanks!

**anand_palm** Fri May 13, 2011 3:28 pm

Hello Patti

There are three different fields (of energy) flowing in different directions meeting at the same point for a triradius. A pattern is 1 field bending and 2 or more fields interacting as a whorl or double loop. The descriptions lead me to think of different energies.

the person is one and the same it is just that i had long back forgotton on user ID so i had to create another one, anyway i will use on ID.

Now please correct me if iam wrong a triradius is formed the last when the centre pattern, bottom pattern and top pattern (near the nail) meet. But when i read one of penrose paper he was not sure about whether the triradius forms and these orginate or it forms only when the three are completed. so that is what made me think do triradius forms first or it is already formed before.

There are three different fields (of energy) flowing in different directions meeting at the same point for a triradius. A pattern is 1 field bending and 2 or more fields interacting as a whorl or double loop. The descriptions lead me to think of different energies.

Now when u have indicated a pattern i guess you would imply a loop or whorl do you include the pattern near nail ect. These three different fields if i understand are three different systems (one for the upper part, bottom and other is the whorl or loop), please correct if iam wrong. According to penrose whorls are two loops together.

Okay can you tel me what purpose do palm prints have. like eisntein had a great palm print and i feel that coould made him ore unique with the combination of fingerpritns.
so i feel there should be somethingh to palm prints. first is it in anyway related to finger print or is it somethingh else. if it so then how would you accoutn for total triradius per penrose formula which encompasses the total triradii formula for a hand. so my thought is that total tririadii forms the base for palmistry. iam not sure but this i thought could help understand thinghs. please comment on this

The area that is labeled the 'core' is the center of the pattern and typically the very first location for ridges to form. Only a few ridges form at the center. They rarely radiate outward from the center in development. Ridges then form above the distal interphalangeal crease and along the developing nail bed - distally and laterally, move inwards and meet each other

If i understand this the rdiges which develop at the core do not dvelop, only ridges at above below kep moving and complete the pattern.

Finally what is the purpose of this triradius, other than identifying the pattern does it imply anythingh else. my though based on spirutality three has good spirutal power. iam not sure in dermatoglyhpics sense. when there is no triradius then there is no pattern so does it have any power more than the type of pattern formed. Please reply

I appreaicte your reply
CIao
Anand

Patti Fri May 13, 2011 5:02 pm

anand_palm wrote: Now please correct me if iam wrong a triradius is formed the last when the centre pattern, bottom pattern and top pattern (near the nail) meet. But when i read one of penrose paper he was not sure about whether the triradius forms and these orginate or it forms only when the three are completed. so that is what made me think do triradius forms first or it is already formed before.

Hi Anand,
Do you have access to the paper from Penrose? I only have one book from him "Dermatoglyphics and Medicine". There he refers to the "discontinuities of pattern" in relation to the triradii and the meeting of fields.

anand_palm wrote: Now when u have indicated a pattern i guess you would imply a loop or whorl do you include the pattern near nail ect. These three different fields if i understand are three different systems (one for the upper part, bottom and other is the whorl or loop), please correct if iam wrong. According to penrose whorls are two loops together.

I would look at the entire fingerprint.

Yes, three systems or fields, and yes whorls are two loops.

anand_palm wrote:Okay can you tel me what purpose do palm prints have. like eisntein had a great palm print and i feel that coould made him ore unique with the combination of fingerpritns.
so i feel there should be somethingh to palm prints. first is it in anyway related to finger print or is it somethingh else. if it so then how would you accoutn for total triradius per penrose formula which encompasses the total triradii formula for a hand. so my thought is that total tririadii forms the base for palmistry. iam not sure but this i thought could help understand thinghs. please comment on this

Basically, the skin ridges are thought to be for friction or grip. Early researchers also described them as relating to one's degree of sensitivity to touch or sensations.

You mention Einstein and his whorls. Whorls have an interesting reputation. They are on gifted people but they are also found in higher frequency in certain health and mental conditions. There is a saying that there is a fine line between genius and insanity.

anand_palm wrote: If i understand this the rdiges which develop at the core do not dvelop, only ridges at above below kep moving and complete the pattern.

Cummins & Midlo say in "Finger Prints Palms & Soles" page 181:
"Less frequently, differentiation may be completed by extension from a single focus centered on the finger ball."

Martijn shared this illustration in another thread:

Interaction of palmarprints and fingerprints Sidewhrl

Interaction of palmarprints and fingerprints Sidewhrl

( The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! )

It's a biometric researcher's concept of how the fingerprint forms using computer generated animations based on formulas. Their article suggests the forming of the triradius in actuality may not be the same as in the animation.

anand_palm wrote: Finally what is the purpose of this triradius, other than identifying the pattern does it imply anythingh else. my though based on spirutality three has good spirutal power. iam not sure in dermatoglyhpics sense. when there is no triradius then there is no pattern so does it have any power more than the type of pattern formed. Please reply

I appreaicte your reply
CIao
Anand

I'm not sure if 'purpose' is the right word. Instead, I'm thinking about if it has a 'function'. as a result of 3 different fields/systems meeting. I see them as 'energetic'.

Very Happy

**Martijn (admin)** Fri May 13, 2011 5:29 pm

shivam_palmistry wrote:... there are lot of thinghs iam not sure that is is there are rule based system to interpret dermatoglphyics as a whole. For example everybody on palm would have a minimum of 4 triradius so that accoutns on every palm, however addition of loop or whorl intensifies the triradius. In richard unger he gives consideration only when whorls occur on palm when the question of lifepurpose is needed. But i personally think that triradius plays the more crucial role than do patterns. ...

anand_palm wrote:... like eisntein had a great palm print and i feel that coould made him ore unique with the combination of fingerpritns.
so i feel there should be somethingh to palm prints. first is it in anyway related to finger print or is it somethingh else. if it so then how would you accoutn for total triradius per penrose formula which encompasses the total triradii formula for a hand. so my thought is that total tririadii forms the base for palmistry.

Hello anand_palm,

I really like you thoughts & considerations regarding the issue of the total number of triradii: yes, it is for sure a very interesting topic!

Though I think this issue doesn't really relate to Richard Unger's approach - because his approach is much more focussed on the 'energies' of the loops & whorls, so his approach never really focusses on the quality- nor the quantity of the triradii.

Anyway, I think it will be interesting for you to know that in my autism research I have found a highly significant connection regarding the presence of 28 or more triradii, see:
http://www.handresearch.com/hand/Evolutie/autismeEngels.htm

Finally, I also would like to add one more thought:

Beyond counting the triradii... it is important to consider the location of the triradii as well.

For example: the picture below shows the hands of a person who has Down's syndrome - the number of triradii is quite normal (11 in the right hand, 10 in the left hand), but the distribution among the fingers not normal at all (e.g. a missing palmar triradius below the middle finger is hardly ever seen in the general population)

Interaction of palmarprints and fingerprints Downs.dg.features

Interaction of palmarprints and fingerprints Downs.dg.features

**anand_palm** Sat May 14, 2011 3:05 pm

Hello Matinj

Thank you for your appreciation on my thoughts on triradius and your indepth comments on total number of triradius, i have few papers on dermatoglyphics, i do have two paper from penrose on if remember is one formation of patterns and other his validity on the formula for triradius. i have this one currently and there are some other papers u might find it interesting and might get some information. How do i attach a PDF file, iam not able to attach the files. please help me.

Thanks
Anand

**Martijn (admin)** Sat May 14, 2011 3:19 pm

Hello Anand,

Thank you for your efforts. But it is not possible to upload a full PDF-file at this forum, but instead maybe you can simply share the url where you found the file... or otherwise maybe the title of the article?

And I am looking forward to hear your thoughts about the issue(s) that you have in mind!

wave

**anand_palm** Mon May 16, 2011 3:32 pm

Hello MartinJ

There are lot of interesting papers on dermatoglyhphics, here are some of the names, most of them have been downloaded from google search engine. Here are the names

Medical Significance of Finger-prints and Related Phenomena by L.s Penrose, this link is here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1985640/pdf/brmedj02083-0021.pdf

the other one which is a review paper on dermatoglyhphics mighe be handy
(dermatoglyphics review : Kumbani)
http://www.krepublishers.com/06-Special%20Volume-Journal/T-Anth-00-Special%20Volumes/T-Anth-SI-03-Anth-Today-Web/Anth-SI-03-24-Kumbnani-H-K/Anth-SI-03-24-Kumbnani-H-K-Tt.pdf

the other one is Genetic Determinants of 22 Quantitative Dermatoglyphic Traits in the
Chuvashian Population of Russia: Complex Segregation Analysis this is an interesting paper if youy read it through it tries to categorize about the a-b ridge and its uniqueness.

there are lot of thionghs which needs to be discussed, i will get back to you on wednesday. my questions is on palmar interdigital loops amd its importance. the autism and down syndrome artcile are interesting but do you think genes is the factor which afffects fingerpritn on fingers and plamar prints. more data needs to be collected, iam not sure we will discuss on wednesday, iam held for few days i will get back to you on wednesday in detail

Thanks
Anand

Patti Mon May 16, 2011 4:22 pm

Thank you Anand for the links to the pdf files!

Patti Mon May 16, 2011 8:07 pm

anand_palm wrote:
Medical Significance of Finger-prints and Related Phenomena by L.s Penrose, this link is here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1985640/pdf/brmedj02083-0021.pdf

I find Penrose's apology for his paper at the end interesting. He was among those of his time that thought if humans were bred in the same fashion as our farm animals we would have a better race of humans. It's called Eugenics and some of the world's wealthiest and most powerful today think it's a good idea.

**anand_palm** Wed May 18, 2011 2:49 pm

Hello Martinj

There are some other paper i will sen dyou the link. Rgearding the relationship between autism and number of triradius is very interesting research. However the siginificant effect needs to be to understood more samples need to be given for a precise conclusion. since the population size is small it would be difficult to find a proper correlation. There is lot more to think on this. But iam trying to find out on the importance of the interdigital loops does it add some value to the autism. The other thingh which seems to be interesting is that if people say genes have an effect on patterns of fingerprint formation such as loops, whorls then why there is a sigfinifcant variation of these patterns within a large family. Iam trying to look at whether there is factor responsible for finger pritn formation on fingers based on genetics or is it related to somethingh it looks like genetic play a role but how much. In a similar way there is also formation of palmar loops(interdigital) is that related to genes or somethingh else. This has to be clear, unless more data is collected can precise conclusion be made.

The important thingh is when you associate finger with fingerpritns then there could be corruption in data because finger would be more related to genetics than prints, however the effect of finger shape, palm shape can have effect on prints hence when looking at these data such as ridge count ect there could be effect of genetics coming into play and therby conclusion could be that fingerpritns are affected by genetics, so in this case how do you look at dermatpoglyhphics indpenedently, what kind of measure shoudl be used to correctly say this is a measure independent of finger shape, finger length ect.. if i undersatnd this clearly then answers whether fingerprints, palmpritns are affected by genes can be concluded.

Thanks
Anand

**Pamelah** Wed May 18, 2011 11:56 pm

anand_palm wrote:Hello Lynn, Stalin

IHowever in his book he has mentioned that palmar prints may not count for life purpose and only whorls are counted for life purpose from palmar prints. for example the seriousness loop might add on a effect to saturn mount and improve its qualities. For example if a person who does not have a seriousness loop but has whorl on saturn finger may not be that serious in acheiving the corresponding life purpose. He probably could acheive the life purpose but may be he might hurt others in the process due to lack of seriousness loop ( iam not sure iam just guessing). Still i think nobody is clear on how these palmar prints and fingerprints interact. I did ask but iam not able to get clear answe.

Thanks
Anand

Anand, I didn't read the rest of the posts yet so not sure if this was covered. But I want to add this since I actually studied with Richard and still talk with him about hand markings. The reason he doesn't include the loops below the fingers if there are fingerprints there is because they show up often. If there is a whorl on the palm right below the fingers that does get included in the Life Purpose.

A fingerprint in the moon zone, for example, as a whorl, peacock or composite, I include as Life Purpose, especially if it's the highest ranking print. The ranking system is integral for understanding how to determine Life Purpose and Lesson on hands.

If I see whorls on the fingers and a loop in the moon zone, because it's rare, I will have a conversation about spiritual teacher focus. I'm not going to dismiss it because it is so rare. It's there for a reason. If I see an arch or tented arch on the moon zone, I may have a conversation with somebody about life lesson. I hope this clarifies a bit for you.

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