Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

**Pamelah** Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:21 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Pamelah,
Where the fingerprints are I think are called the pads, do you mean that if they are like, the only word I can think of is, plump you would expect them to have whorl prints and if a flat pads were seen they would be expected to be arches. Hope this isn't a daft question. Thanks again.
Jeanette.

The fingerprints form on the volar pads. The volar pads are formed first, then the fingeprints come after that. Plump is one word to use. The whorls stand up higher on the volar pads than the arches do. Loops and tented arches are higher than arches, but don't stand up as high as the whorls do. Does that answer your question?

**jeanette** Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:38 pm

What I meant was I've read in posts it being said of a hand the person has sensitive pads and they look, to me, plump. So just by observing that would an assumption be made to what the fingerprint would be. Thanks,
Jeanette.

Patti Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:00 pm

Pamelah wrote:
jeanette wrote:Hi Pamelah,
Where the fingerprints are I think are called the pads, do you mean that if they are like, the only word I can think of is, plump you would expect them to have whorl prints and if a flat pads were seen they would be expected to be arches. Hope this isn't a daft question. Thanks again.
Jeanette.

The fingerprints form on the volar pads. The volar pads are formed first, then the fingeprints come after that. Plump is one word to use. The whorls stand up higher on the volar pads than the arches do. Loops and tented arches are higher than arches, but don't stand up as high as the whorls do. Does that answer your question?

Hi Pamelah and Jeanette,
I once thought the same as you and Jeanette, the sensitivity pads were related to particular fingerprint types.

For years I've theorized that the whorl and loop patterns actually first start to form in a 'dimple' that forms in the volar pad just before it deflates. This same theory I found was also later supported by a researcher on one of Chris Plato's teams and mentioned in one of his books as a theory. I've read literature recently that suggests this is now accepted as how the central part of the fingerprint pattern initiates. In a hollow space and not a peak, unless that hollow space has blended in with the rest of the fingertip volar pad.

**jeanette** Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Thanks Patti,
That is exactly what I wanted to know.
Jeanette.

**Pamelah** Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:21 am

That's fascinating, Patti. When Richard diid his research that may not have been known. He did it through medical journals and books in the 80s.

Patti Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:08 pm

Pamelah wrote:
That's fascinating, Patti. When Richard diid his research that may not have been known. He did it through medical journals and books in the 80s.

Hi Pamelah,
Since we discussed this a week or so ago, I've been studying an article by a team that is creating simulations of the formation of fingerprints based on the tension between the nail bed and the distal interphalangeal crease.

They acknowledge that embryological factors are not calculated into their simulations, and the triradii do not follow actual observations.

The calculations in the report are way over my head, but it's still very interesting to see how they approach fingerprint development.

The computer generated fingerprints indicate whorls form based on a greater tension wavelength on a higher volar pad.

They don't even mention Kimura or Plato's team which both reported the observation of the dimple and its potential relationship to pattern formation. I still favor this (dimple) theory as it explains better, to me, the spectrum of prints from whorl to loop to arch on a topographical surface. Surface tension would still play a huge role, too.

~~This report also doesn't explain what forces would create a radial loop versus a ulnar loop~~. <edit> see correction next post.

At one place in the article they suggest that the creases in the palms, and their tension, influences the flow of the developing dgs.

Fascinating study!

http://www.henrytempleman.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/A_model_for_fingerprint_formation.334120244.pdf

Patti Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:32 pm

Correction:
Regarding radial loops -
"where the direction of the loop opening is determined by the asymmetry of the
pad"

**jeanette** Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:58 am

Thanks for all that Patti.
Jeanette.

**Martijn (admin)** Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:14 pm

jeanette wrote:What I meant was I've read in posts it being said of a hand the person has sensitive pads and they look, to me, plump. So just by observing that would an assumption be made to what the fingerprint would be. Thanks,
Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette,

thinking

... I am not sure that this question of yours has actually been answerwed.

Because, it appears to me that were wondering about the possibility that one can 'see' the fingerprint just from the size of a 'droplet-shape' in an adult's hand (without looking at the fingerprint itself). Or have I misunderstood that part of your question.

If I understood your question correctly... then my simply answer to your question would be: no, that is not possible.

In Patti's article mentioned, the last sentance of the summary includes the following sentence:

"Specifically, they are consistent with the well-known observation that the pattern type depends on the geometry of the fingertip surface when fingerprint patterns are formed."

This sentence explicitely describes how the fingerprint pattern relates to geometry of the fingertip during a certain period BEFORE birth. But the geometry of the fingertip includes a series of changes during the prenatal development, and at the moment of birth that geometry is no longer directly related to the pattern of the fingerprint.

In my 'scientific palm reading course' I also spend a few words on this topic, featured with a nice illustration how the 'volar pads' look like in week 10 of the prenatal development:
http://www.handresearch.com/course/palm-reading-guide-mini-course-developments-4.htm

is there an ideal fingerprint - Page 3 Foetus

is there an ideal fingerprint - Page 3 Foetus

**jeanette** Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:11 pm

Hi Martijin,
That was my question, so the answer is no. I was looking and reading the information you gave and it says the whorls form earlier than the others, so am I right in thinking it looks like whorl people have quicker brains. Thanks,
Jeanette.

**Martijn (admin)** Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:45 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Martijin,
That was my question, so the answer is no. I was looking and reading the information you gave and it says the whorls form earlier than the others, so am I right in thinking it looks like whorl people have quicker brains. Thanks,
Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette,

I understand why you make this association, but there is no direct specified connection between fingerprint types and intelligence.

Because a 'quicker' development can have multiple causes. And if you think about the phenomenon 'hyperactivity', then you will understand that a faster development does not necessary result in higher intelligence, etc.

I wish the rules of 'mother nature' were simple, but they are not!

Because, I do think that there is a connection between fingerprint & IQ - that probably requires an analysis of the distrubution of the various patterns across the 10 fingers of a person.

Regarding the topic 'intelligence', my thought is that the issue of 'fingerprint symmetry' appears to play a significant role:
- too much asymmetry is less preferable (for example when all 5 fingers show a different pattern between both hands);
- but too much symmetry is not good either (such as in 'monomorphic hands').

But 'intelligence' is a bit of a complex topic, that even includes some abstract elements.

So, regarding your question 'Is there an ideal fingeprint?'... on second thought, maybe your question includes a philosophic element - which is rather hard to specify with details.

By the way Jeannet, did you have the issue of 'intelligence' in mind when you created this topic? Or is that only an association that you made later?

wave

**jeanette** Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:31 pm

Hi Martijin,
It was intelligence I was thinking of initially.
Jeanette.

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