The Line of Logic Phalange is Missing!

**Kiran.Katawa** Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:28 am

Hi,

can you notice that the line which forms the logic phalange of the thumb is missing.

The Line of Logic Phalange is Missing! Img_0610

What are your views on this?

**pravin kumar** Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:59 pm

Dear Kiran,

What would you call the line in the centre with an island like image in the center?

Pravin Kumar

**Martijn (admin)** Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:49 pm

Hello Kiran,

Sorry, at first sight I don't think there is any (normal) line missing.
Are you able to specify about what exactly is missing according your view?

wave

**Kiran.Katawa** Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:37 am

pravin kumar wrote:Dear Kiran,

What would you call the line in the centre with an island like image in the center?

Pravin Kumar

Hi Pravin, that line separates the logic and will phalange.
Please refer to the attached picture in the next post.

**Kiran.Katawa** Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:42 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:Hello Kiran,

Sorry, at first sight I don't think there is any (normal) line missing.
Are you able to specify about what exactly is missing according your view?

Hi Martijn,

Pls see the below picture:
The Line of Logic Phalange is Missing! Thumb_14

Line 1: Separates Will phalange and Logic phalange. At here, will phalange ends and logic phalange starts.
Line 2: Ends the logic phalange.
Line 3: Family ring.

In the first picture, I have attached, Line 2 is missing and what we are seeing is Line 3.

I hope my question is clear now.
Please share your thots on this.

**pravin kumar** Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:44 am

Dear Martin,

That is exactly what I was getting at. Thumb should bend over there too.

Martijn (admin) wrote:Hello Kiran,

Sorry, at first sight I don't think there is any (normal) line missing.
Are you able to specify about what exactly is missing according your view?

Pravin Kumar

**Martijn (admin)** Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:14 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:Hello Kiran,

Sorry, at first sight I don't think there is any (normal) line missing.
Are you able to specify about what exactly is missing according your view?

Hi Martijn,

Pls see the below picture:

Line 1: Separates Will phalange and Logic phalange. At here, will phalange ends and logic phalange starts.
Line 2: Ends the logic phalange.
Line 3: Family ring.

In the first picture, I have attached, Line 2 is missing and what we are seeing is Line 3.

I hope my question is clear now.
Please share your thots on this.

Hi Kiran,

Line 2 is a common line, but it can manifest in many differnt shapes. And in the photo in your first post I spotted that line to be present... however, it is rather short because it 'dives' directly into the family ring.

So, I would say that line 2 is not missing there.

wave

PS. By the way, I think the general description in most books is that the second phalange ends at line 3 (the thenar / mount of venus begins beyond line 3). So, I think your problem here sort of directly results from your assumption that 2nd phalange ends at line 2.

Patti Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:28 am

Martijn, the short line that angles into the 'family ring' is known as an oblique crease that forms before birth. It's in Kimura's work. It is never horizontal and 'better not' be confused with an extra crease. Wink

Kiran, line 2 is called an 'extra crease'.

The Line of Logic Phalange is Missing! Kimura11

from "Dermatoglyphics, Science in Transition"

Patti Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:48 am

This might be easier to see.

The Line of Logic Phalange is Missing! Kimura12

**Martijn (admin)** Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:16 am

Thanks Patti, yes you are right: there are actually 2 lines that are typically found ON the 2nd phalange of the thumb! (I have both of them on both of my thumbs - though do not consider that as unusual)

But more important: your answer illustrates that Kiran's line 2 is an 'extra crease', and this implicates that those material confirm my point that line 2 is not the location where the 2nd thumb phalange ends.

(Because Kimura's illustration shows that the picture only describes the irregular creases - and those are not the locations where a finger of thumb ends)

Thumb up

**zaobhand** Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:23 pm

I seem to recall a post suggesting this extra crease at bottom of logic thumb phalange can indicate perhaps two upbringings (two homes). Patti, love your avatar!

**Kiran.Katawa** Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:46 am

Hi Patti, Martijn,
thank you for the inputs.

So, if EC(extra crease) is missing then the logic phalange length is from 1st crease to 3rd crease( which is OC). Is it?!

And if EC(extra crease) is present then the logic phalange length is from 1st crease to 2nd crease(which is EC). is it?

Patti Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:28 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:Hi Patti, Martijn,
thank you for the inputs.

So, if EC(extra crease) is missing then the logic phalange length is from 1st crease to 3rd crease( which is OC). Is it?!

And if EC(extra crease) is present then the logic phalange length is from 1st crease to 2nd crease(which is EC). is it?

No.
The lower phalange (logic section) is from the distal interphalangeal crease to the metacarpophalangeal crease (here the same as family crease). From knuckle to knuckle. The entire thumb is only divided into these two sections (normally). All other creases that appear to divide the thumb are 'extra creases'.

Patti Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:31 am

zaobhand wrote:I seem to recall a post suggesting this extra crease at bottom of logic thumb phalange can indicate perhaps two upbringings (two homes). Patti, love your avatar!

**Martijn (admin)** Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:46 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:Hi Patti, Martijn,
thank you for the inputs.

So, if EC(extra crease) is missing then the logic phalange length is from 1st crease to 3rd crease( which is OC). Is it?!

And if EC(extra crease) is present then the logic phalange length is from 1st crease to 2nd crease(which is EC). is it?

Hi Kiran,

No, the logic phalange is always from 1st crease to 3rd crease.

(The other creases do not define the length of the 2nd phalange; only crease 3 is by principle always present in a hand - though rare exceptions are possible)

wave

**Kiran.Katawa** Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:57 am

Thank you Patti and Martijn for confirmation.
So, what is the meaning, when a strong 2nd line is present( the EC )?
Does it has any significance?

Patti Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:58 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:Thank you Patti and Martijn for confirmation.
So, what is the meaning, when a strong 2nd line is present( the EC )?
Does it has any significance?

I think it would have more significance if missing since it appears that folding of the thumb forces some kind of buckling on this phalange. So I would say skin texture, tissue and muscle development would relate to seeing a wrinkled area with many extra creases or a single deep one in a clearer area.

In your example the extra crease is only partial and doesn't appear deep. Can you check his thumb's flexibility?

**Kiran.Katawa** Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:41 am

No Patti, the thumb is not bending.

And yes, the EC is partially present.
So, what does this signify.

And - if an EC is present as a strong and single line, you won't give any meaning to it?

B.t.w. can you pls give the details of that Kimura book, which you have referred?

Patti Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:29 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:
No Patti, the thumb is not bending.

And yes, the EC is partially present.
So, what does this signify.

And - if an EC is present as a strong and single line, you won't give any meaning to it?

B.t.w. can you pls give the details of that Kimura book, which you have referred?

I don't have a particular 'meaning' associated with it other than the idea that sometimes you see a grille of lines here, several horizontal lines or just a few and even vertical lines. So the indications, as I'd see it, would be the same as when extra creases are on fingers... only this is the thumb energy.

The scans are from a photocopy of "Dermatoglyphics, Science in Transition" Chris Plato

ashokha Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:42 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:Hi,

can you notice that the line which forms the logic phalange of the thumb is missing.

What are your views on this?

the logic area of the finger is there. but the separating line is missing and it troops down to family line. be happy. you will not logic means you will be practical in your life. not thinking too much for things. thinking too much like Socrates and then finally drinking poison is not necessary for common man. isn't? The Line of Logic Phalange is Missing! Thumb_10

**Kiran.Katawa** Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:20 pm

Thank you Ashoka ji.
From which book have you picked up those reference images?

ashokha Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:32 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:Thank you Ashoka ji.
From which book have you picked up those reference images?

I have drawn myself for easy reference.

**Kiran.Katawa** Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:23 pm

ashokha wrote:
Kiran.Katawa wrote:Thank you Ashoka ji.
From which book have you picked up those reference images?
I have drawn myself for easy reference.

Cool Ashoka ji. You got good picturesque skills. Thumbs up!

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