Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints)

**zaobhand** Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:44 pm

Hi,

I've seen yesterday a hand with clear composites on both thumbs. The rest of the fingerprints are ulnar loops. She didn't seem to be indecisive, rather the opposite, very decisive and clear on her goals, confirmed by her husband. Otherwise her hand seems strong with clear lines, straight fingers, rather clear fire line, balanced and proportionate, and good thumb. She leads a science laboratory in research institute. This is not the 1st time I've seen people with composites who do not seem to "fit the bill". There is also the composite aspect of being able to see different angles, which she may have, not sure. Anyone with similar experiences?

Thanks
Boaz

**Martijn (admin)** Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:14 pm

Hello Zoab!!

Excellent question... and observation!

But regarding your interpretation, I think you made a 'beginner's mistake' by focussing too much on the theory: looks like you confused the 'theory' with the 'interpretation'!

While the 'theory' for a double loop indeed points in the direction of 'indecisiveness', the 'interpretation' requires the ability to recognize other hand characteristics that related to "indecisiveness"!!!

And actually... I think you did a fine job by looking at the other fingerprints AND some other hand characteristics!!

You described:
"...clear lines, straight fingers, rather clear fire line, balanced and proportionate, and good thumb."

This sounds like you were not able to find other hand characteristics in this women that relate to the theme 'indecisiveness'?

For, the few observations that you shared so far... explain to me why you couldn't related this issue of 'indecisiveness' to this woman as a major issue in particular!? (Though some people are simply very good in hiding their insecurities etc.)

NOTICE: A few other 'classic signs' for indecisiveness are:
- double- or splitting head head line;
- short index-, ring-, or pinky finger;
- relatively short 1st phalange of the thumb (+ longer 2nd phalange)
- many irregularities in the major lines;
- unregular lines;
- Sydney line / simian line.

Zoab, how does this sound to you?
I hope that this now makes more sense for you!?

Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) Double_loop

Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) Double_loop

**Manfred** Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:26 pm

Dear Zoab,

accoding to Richard's system one meaning of composite is that they experince much changes in ups and downs like a roller-coaster. On the thumbs I would say on the field of profession results and in the family life.

Another meaning can be good abbilities in counselling or mediation - in meetings - between very different opinions or people if they are on the way to get results. Here I would await special abbilities on that field.
Astrological we always find Libra (or secondary Gemini) accentuated as the Sun sign, AC, or here MC or in strong aspects to that.

Regards
Manfred.

**zaobhand** Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:43 pm

Hi Martijn and Manfred,

Great insights! Indeed she doesn't seem to have any other indication for indecisiveness in her hand. Possibly she is good at mediating but I don't know her sufficiently and in such a context. I believe she has indeed been experiencing pretty regular ups and downs with respect to family life, and also as a child she had strong variations in her grades due to sickness. I have also seen some libra relationships to composites but still need to analyze more data that I have collected.

Very helpful,
Boaz sunny

**Lori** Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:52 pm

Hi Boaz, Martijn & Manfred:
Thank you Boaz for asking the composite question. I really appreciate Martijn and Manfred's response - I learned a lot from them.
I have composites on both my thumbs and fit the theoretical composite traits. I have difficulty making decisions and do see multiple views on things. I do not however have any of the other indecisive hand features that Martijn listed. Because of the way I am with my composites, I would have viewed others in the same way that I am had I not learn from the responses to Boaz's question. I will now watch for other indicators in the palm.
Thanks everyone!
Lori

**zaobhand** Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:56 pm

Hi Lori,

Thank you for your very interesting feedback. If you happen to feel like sharing with us your palm prints and time/date/place of birth, that would be great (pm (private message) would be fine too).

Best,
Boaz

**Lynn** Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:11 am

HI Boaz

One other consideration. There are some fingerprints that appear to be double loop composites, that are actually WHORLS! It depends if the two loops are completely seperate (double loop) or if they have a "shared shoulder" at the centre of the S shape which makes it a whorl. I hope Martijn can show an example and perhaps explain it better than I have.

**Martijn (admin)** Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:26 am

Lynn wrote:HI Boaz
One other consideration. There are some fingerprints that appear to be double loop composites, that are actually WHORLS! It depends if the two loops are completely seperate (double loop) or if they have a "shared shoulder" at the centre of the S shape which makes it a whorl. I hope Martijn can show an example and perhaps explain it better than I have.

Excellent point Lynn!! Thumbs up!

An example of a 'double-loop-whorl' (= 2 loops inside a whorl):
Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) Dw3

An example of a true 'double loop' (= 2 independent loops):
Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) Smdi

**Lynn** Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:33 am

Great, thanks Martijn! Confusing isn't it, I still have problems seeing the difference sometimes. When in doubt, I usually give interpretation for both and allow the client's response (and other hand features) to confirm whether it is a whorl or double loop composite!

**Martijn (admin)** Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:50 am

Well Lynn, the situation is actually slightly more complicated - because there are even more 'double loop'-variants possible (such as for example the 'imploding whorl' - see the picture below).

Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) 18832_245586660851_198814315851_3502192_3336525_a

Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) 18832_245586660851_198814315851_3502192_3336525_a

Though... formally these can all be described as 'double loops'; see page 61 in the FBI's 'The Science of Fingerprints':
http://www.dermatoglyphics.com/sof/#CHAPTER_III

Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) Fig257-262

Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) Fig257-262

**zaobhand** Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:54 am

Thank you Lynn and Martijn,

Very helpful. Do you find the double-loop-whorl to have a similar yet attenuated interpretation relative to the double-loop classic?

I may be able to take her prints over the weekend and perhaps even upload them.

Boaz Thumb up

**zaobhand** Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:42 am

I just took her palm prints and she has the double-loop-whorl. Unfortunately they don't have a scanner so I probably won't be able to upload the prints. Nevertheless, I feel better about the seeming contradiction.

It is bit tricky - the true 'double loop' - seems to have lines - in between the two loops - that go across the finger while the loops in the double-loop-whorl appear to be nested within each other.

A link suggesting some subtleties in the definition of the double loop variants:
http://www.brazoria-county.com/sheriff/id/fingerprints/id~double~loop~whorls.htm

**Lori** Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:05 pm

zaobhand wrote:If you happen to feel like sharing with us your palm prints and time/date/place of birth, that would be great.

Hi Boaz:
My date of birth is 30 December 1960 and time of birth is 15:30 Toronto time. wave

Lori

Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) Owen_l14

Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints) Owen_l13

**Manfred** Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:43 pm

Dear Lori,

I'm still not able to put in fotos or charts - and I think it even wouldn't be too good.

Are you familiar with astrology?

The questions about composites may be important, but at this time other topics are it much more and I really don't know how much I should write in public and on the base of forecasting.

But at this time one very important theme may be the fundamental change in your partnership with a leaning to split off - the hand confirms this at this time, too - and a more and more transforming of your inner self (the peak is laying a little bit ahead) .
The other main theme is a removing or coming off process on the field of your profession and/or public appearance. Perhaps it will be accopanied by a kind of dissolving the home.

Make this sense? - If yes, all in all I would very recommend to appoint a professional psychological astrologist personally, because he would be able (and very helpful) to accompany this longer and intensive process of fundamental changes.

I hope my words could help you on.

Regards
Manfred

ps.: By the way, we find the Sun in house 7, the Libra house, that shows a very strong Libra influence on the self (right hand thumb).
Libra is in house 5, the Sun house: The result is a kind of reception of Sun/Libra that underlines this influence.

**zaobhand** Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:06 pm

Thank you Lori wave

**zaobhand** Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:12 pm

Hi Lori,

I see that you have rings of solomon on both hands - cool; do you find it fits you? Also loops of nature/mystery on both hands.

**Lori** Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:58 am

Manfred wrote:
Are you familiar with astrology?

But at this time one very important theme may be the fundamental change in your partnership with a leaning to split off - the hand confirms this at this time, too - and a more and more transforming of your inner self (the peak is laying a little bit ahead) .
The other main theme is a removing or coming off process on the field of your profession and/or public appearance. Perhaps it will be accopanied by a kind of dissolving the home.

Make this sense? - If yes, all in all I would very recommend to appoint a professional psychological astrologist personally, because he would be able (and very helpful) to accompany this longer and intensive process of fundamental changes.

ps.: By the way, we find the Sun in house 7, the Libra house, that shows a very strong Libra influence on the self (right hand thumb).
Libra is in house 5, the Sun house: The result is a kind of reception of Sun/Libra that underlines this influence.

Hi Manfred:
Thanks for your comments! I am not familiar with astrology, so some of what you said was not well understood (particularly in the ps.)

I am interested to know if the leaning to split off is something you saw in my palm and if so, what were the indicators or is this with respect to astrology.

I don't feel any changes in my partnership but I have been going through a big change in my career.

Thanks for your insight!
Lori

**Lori** Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:05 am

zaobhand wrote:I see that you have rings of solomon on both hands - cool; do you find it fits you? Also loops of nature/mystery on both hands.

Hi Boaz:

the Rings of Solomon and both loops definitely fit with me! Lori

**Lynn** Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:23 am

zaobhand wrote:Do you find the double-loop-whorl to have a similar yet attenuated interpretation relative to the double-loop classic?

I may be able to take her prints over the weekend and perhaps even upload them.

Boaz

hi Boaz,
I had to look up the meaning of 'attenuated' geek

Yes, weakens both the intensity of the whorl & the double loop indecisiveness, so it's more like a double loop in balance (yin-yang). Great if you can upload her prints
Thumb up

**zaobhand** Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:44 am

Hi Lynn,

Interesting! I'll try to take photos of the prints and upload them if quality is reasonable, no scanner here... The "attenuated" probably comes then from my science background..

Hi Manfred,

What would be the astrological indications for the different finger prints? Say peacock, whorl, radial peacock? Perhaps we should open new thread for this?

Boaz day dreaming

**Manfred** Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:32 pm

Dear Lori,

I only thought, if you are familiar with astrology it would be interesting to hear some astrological aspects. If not, forget the more technical exploration.

I thought about some changes on the field of partnership on base of both, hand and horoscope as a possibility. This can also mean some more important changes in the same partnership as a continuum of a process that began around 7 years ago. (All on the base that your birth time is correct.)

The changes of the career may secondary also bring some changes of the home (placement). Again: I would also await some deeper transformation in the inner self, perhaps in any connection with your father theme.

Shurely it would be much better to speak about it in a personal consutation, therefore my recommendation.

With best wishes
Manfred

**Manfred** Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:40 pm

zaobhand wrote:
Hi Manfred,
What would be the astrological indications for the different finger prints? Say peacock, whorl, radial peacock? Perhaps we should open new thread for this?
Boaz :8->:

Dear Boaz,

you are really funny! - You want from me the "chiological egg of Columbus" and what I have been resarching for several years with the feeling still to be just behind the start. Shurely it would be an intersting extending capture in a new book if I ever reach the goal.

An intersting combination between finger patterns and the astrological elements, not 5 elements, and one who I agree you'll find here:

http://www.astropalmistry.com/dermatoglyphs.html

Regards
Manfred

**zaobhand** Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:04 pm

Dear Manfred,

I hope you will gain strides in your research. I thought the double composite relationship to Libra and Gemini was interesting. Thank you for the link.

Regards
Boaz

**Lori** Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:57 pm

Manfred wrote:I only thought, if you are familiar with astrology it would be interesting to hear some astrological aspects.

Thanks Manfred for your explanation and insights. You have peaked my interest in having a reading to learn more. Thanks!

Lori

**Manfred** Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:45 am

Dear Boas,

I didn't deny any answer but I'm still on the way to get more clarity what really works in connection with astrology. Even on the field of dermatoglyphics are different interpretations in use: That of the N.Jaquin tradition (Johnny, Jenny..), Richard's and only in the German spoken countries that of one of my teachers.

I've written about the basic quaities of composites from two sides, in short: Ups/downs (Richard's system), Libra/Gemini quality (result of my teacher's charts researching).

In respect of composites we know, that they are most common on the thumb and Jupiter finger. This focus the practical interpretations on that both (additionally the consideration of right and left). Martijn has shurely statistics of it.

Dear Lori,
I wish you a happy finding of an exciting and illuminating reading.

Regards
Manfred

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Composites (= 'double loop' fingerprints)

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