Why do we use saturn finger as a measure for identifying hand type

Hello all

Just a curious question, why do use saturn finger as a measure to find hand type for identifying fire or air hand or water hand or other hand types. Why cannot we average all the fingers length (inclusive or exclusive of thumb) with respect to palm length for categorizing hand types.

Thanks
Anand

Hi Anand,

I have never come across the idea of the length of the Saturn finger determining hand type. To my knowledge many factors need to be taken into account - finger length (in relation to palm length) is just one of them. You'd also have to look at the quality and colour of the lines, skin texture, dermatoglyphics, etc.

Hope this helps!

In the 5 element system, we don't talk about 'hand type' because every hand is a mixture of all elements. Saturn (earth) finger is used to determine hand shape. But you also take into account if Saturn finger is short (by looking at apollo and jupiter in relation to Saturn).

Hello Kiwihands, Lynn

Thanks for your inputs, i was thinking for the elemental sysem categorization they use the same concept. Anyway then why do they use saturn finger for determing hand shape.
Please have a look at this website http://www.astropalmistry.com/basics.html. Here they categorize based on short, long fingers and fingers to palm ratio.

Thanks
Anand

Hello Kiwihands, Lynn

This is another website which gives the method.

http://www.edcampbell.com/Water_Hand-A.htm

Thanks
Anand

Hi Anand,

thanks for the links! The first one leads to a 404 error message, but I could read the second one. There, Ed himself gives the rationale for using the middle finger in determining the ratio of finger length to palm length when he says "Finger length is measured by comparing the length of the palm with the length of the middle finger (usually the longest) [...] The palm length is measured from the base of the middle finger to the wrist."
So there are two reasons:
1) If the palm is measured in the middle, it makes sense to continue measuring along the same line rather than shifting across to the left or right.
2) The middle finger is usually the longest.

re

Please have a look at this website http://www.astropalmistry.com/basics.html Here they categorize based on short, long fingers and fingers to palm ratio.

I have removed the full stop from the end of the link, so it should now work kiwi.
I accessed the link Anand but I can't see where it talks about the categorization you mention.

Ed's link is about a water shape hand. As kiwi says, he explains why Saturn finger is used. You can also compare length of saturn to width of palm to get a better idea of finger/palm ratio & shape.
I don't see how you could use any other finger to determine hand shape? what's your problem with it anand?

EDIT - PS I found the page you are talking about Anand
http://www.astropalmistry.com/chirognomy.html
That's the same system that I use for hand shape, with Saturn finger being the one to measure and compare with the palm to ascertain short or long fingers in relation to palm.

Square palm + short fingers = Earth Hand
Square palm + long fingers = Air Hand
Oblong palm + short fingers = Fire Hand
Oblong palm + long fingers = Water hand

Hello Lynn, Kiwi

Thanks for your reply, since we use hand one unit, my immediate question was why can we take fingers as a complete set (which could be averaging the length of fingers) and the making it as a different categories.

Thanks
Anand

Anand, I'm not sure how you would do that? there would be too many variations to use all fingers in classifying hand shape. With everything on the hand, we look at all aspects individually and together with other aspects. Hand shape is just one (general) aspect. Finger length - individual fingers and relative to each other - is another (more specific) thing to look at.

Hello Lynn, Kiwi

The length and breadth of the hand does not have any variation, the variation exist only among the thumb and other fingers. my point is how would the variation be accomdated in categorizing somethingh as fire, air ect..

Thanks
Anand

anand_palm wrote:Hello Lynn, Kiwi

The length and breadth of the hand does not have any variation, the variation exist only among the thumb and other fingers. my point is how would the variation be accomdated in categorizing somethingh as fire, air ect..

Thanks
Anand

Hi Anand,
I'm curious about what you mean by the "length and breadth of the hand does not have any variation". Remember the report from the Koreans from last year where they created a grid for mapping out the palms. Others have attempted this method in the past, too. One of the problems with the grid working is that not all human palms are square.

There are parts of the hands that we can study by various methods from various authors, such as hand shapes. Some systems refer to hands shaped like squares or conic where others speak of earth or air etc. I'm aware of these systems and their use and keep those thoughts in the back of my head while doing readings. But, as Lynn points out, most hands are mixed and do not fit into pure types matching people's systems.

After a lot of practice looking at a wide spectrum of hands, you just notice the general shape of a hand in front of you, eyeball the subtle differences in lengths and widths, thick and thin etc. throughout the hand and apply that information to what is known about the areas that are wider or more narrow than usual.

The human body is generally proportioned in a mathematical way. People have measured horses by 'hands'. My grandmother taught me how to measure off a yard of fabric stretching it from my nose out to my fingers and learning just how far I had to turn my face to make it exact.

I often will compare the hand to a person's face.
Placing the chin into the little hollow space at the wrist and flattening the hand against the face - the fingertips that just about reach the hairline are considered normal for that individual. Of course this doesn't work too well on bald people

Hello Patti

an interesting thingh about hand you have mentioned on measurement with relvance to face ct.. it is interesting to note how every culture have the similar concept. we have saying that a human hand measurement when measured from tip of longest finger to palm length would be equal to 1/8 times the total height of the human body ( or in other words the human body height would be 8 times the length measured from tip of finger to the palm end) and they draw an analogy stating that even if an ant measures its whole body with its own hand in the same fashion then its length would be also 8 times the length of its hand measurement. I have done this on mine and it holds true.

Thanks
Anand

Hello Patti, Lynn

In fact when i was typing that hand length and breadth has no variation i thought i made a mistake and felt lazy to correct it. i agree there is variaiton but not in large amount when a comparison is done with respect to fingers. The finger variaition is larger due to mercury finger and thumb. the width of palm would varying based on the high and low set of fingers as well as the wrist width and the lenght of palm would be due percussion area and mount of mercury curve and the thumb side length (which may be shorter).

My question is how would you proceed. do you take average of finger length and average of variaiton acrros length and breadth of palm.

Thanks
Anand

great reply Patti! Anand I am glad you had second thoughts about your comment "The length and breadth of the hand does not have any variation." because, as you know, they can have big variations!

Anand re

The finger variaition is larger due to mercury finger and thumb. the width of palm would varying based on the high and low set of fingers as well as the wrist width and the lenght of palm would be due percussion area and mount of mercury curve and the thumb side length (which may be shorter).

My question is how would you proceed. do you take average of finger length and average of variaiton acrros length and breadth of palm.

The finger variation can be due to any fingers! eg the 2D:4D studies, (jupiter & apollo). Width of palm across the centre of the palm does not depend on setting of fingers? Length of palm, measured from base of Saturn finger down to centre of wrist does not depend in any way on percussion, Mercury mounts/ ulna side curve, thumb side length etc. I think you are trying to conflate all the various hand features into hand shape? or "hand type"?

re how to proceed - take palm length measurements from middle of wrist to base of Saturn finger, take palm width measurement across the centre of the palm, compare these to Saturn finger length and you have a hand shape. Then you can look at individual & relative finger lengths & settings, which are the most developed mounts,,, etc. One step at a time, then put it all together like a jigsaw to make up a picture of the person. Does this help Anand?

Hello Lynn

Sorry i reveresed, length variaiton occurs due to the setting of the fingers like mercury has low set and saturn high set. the width variaiton occurs due tto he percussion curve (when you measure from mount of mount and thumb end) and mercury mount curve (when you measure from jupiter end to mercury end) and wrist width and top palm width.

I think i making mistakes while iam typing and thinking. lack of coordination between what iam thinking and what iam typing.

Thanks
Anand

Hello Patti and Lynn

I have to look at the korean research, i forgot about it. Hello Lynn, iam still not convinced but there is has to be some starting point. Thanks for your inputs.

Thanks
Anand